Caro-Kann

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Strongest_hokage1998
First time studying opening. What's the suggested lines to memorize first?

kindaspongey

Possibly of interest:

First Steps: Caro-Kann Defence

https://www.newinchess.com/media/wysiwyg/product_pdf/7800.pdf

Strongest_hokage1998
kindaspongey wrote:

Possibly of interest:

First Steps: Caro-Kann Defence

https://www.newinchess.com/media/wysiwyg/product_pdf/7800.pdf

Thank you! Definetely going to look at this pdf!

OldPatzerMike

Memorizing lines is not the way to study an opening. Instead, learn the strategic principles involved in playing with the pawn structures. Once you understand the principles, the specific moves make a lot of sense, and you will be able to make good moves and take advantage of deviations by your opponent. "Pawn Structure Chess" by Soltis and "Chess Structures: A Grandmaster Guide" by Mauricio Flores Rios are excellent introductory resources.

The first two lines you show result in what both authors call the Caro formation. The third one is an e5 chain, similar to structures in the French but with your QB outside the pawn chain. The fourth one is a Carlsbad formation (Soltis calls it the orthodox exchange formation), but with colors reversed from the usual way it arises from the QGD. There are principled ways to play each of these structures, and understanding them eliminates the need to memorize lines.

The fifth line you show doesn't make sense to me. Why hem in your QB with 3...e6? I haven't played the Caro-Kann in over 40 years, but my recollection is that 3...dxe4 is the natural and normal move. That produces a Caro formation.

If you're going to play the Caro-Kann, you also need to be familiar with how to play IQP positions and the Panov formation:

Hope this was helpful. Best of luck in your chess pursuits. happy.png

Homsar

From what side are you looking at it? Do you want to play it as white or black?

Lippy-Lion

Must admit when I used to play the caro it was the panov that I really did not enjoy facing. Struggled against it and was one of the reasons stopped playing the caro, although not many seem to actually play it with white at club level, much more likely white plays exchange

MickinMD

At your rating level - and also at my 1840 rating level - you should worry less about memorizing lines and study the ideas behind the opening.

The basic idea - and this also applies to the Slav Defense and to some extent to the London System (in mirror-image position) as White - is to get your Queen's Bishop to f5 or g4 before ...e6 traps it behind the Pawn Chain (it's a "Bad Bishop") as occurs in the French Defense. I love the Caro-Kann but note that you pay a price for getting your QB outside the Pawn Chain.  The typical counter-attack in both the French and the Caro-Kann begins with ....c5, but it takes 2 moves to get there in the Caro-Kann and only 1 in the French - and sometimes the c-Pawn is gone in the Caro-Kann and you have to use the b-Pawn at some point.

So you have to do more prep work in the Caro-Kann before seriously attacking White.  Typically, you want to put your Queen's Knight on d7: that way it supports c5, b6, as well as f6.

White can choose the Advance Variation with 3 e5, the Classical Variation with 3 Nc3 dxe4 4 Nxe4 Bf5, the Exchange Variation 3 exd5 cxd5 with or without the Panov Attack 4 c4 as well as some relative rare other 2nd of 3rd moves.

But in virtually ALL of them, the setup with pawns on c6, d5, e6 (c6 or d5 may have been exchanged), QB on f5 or g4, and QN on d7 is what you're aiming for and you don't have to memorize the moves. The order often naturally follows from what White does. For example, if White plays Nf3 you often have to play ...Nbd7 right away to prevent Ne4 or you may also find you need ...Bd6 to prevent White from playing Bf4 and controlling the d6 square.

After you get developed, you usually want to attack on the Queen-side.  If White chooses the Advance Variation with Pawns on c3, d4, e5, you usually want to follow standard practice and attack at the base of the Pawn Chain by sending your c- and b-Pawns forward, but if White is strong set-up there, he may be weak at f6 and you can attack there thanks to your d7-N.

Study some master games to get a feel for what works in the key variations mentioned above: a good selection of them are in chess.com's Opening Explorer and at other sites like 365chess.com.

kindaspongey

"... Chess structures: A Grandmaster Guide is not a primer of positional play; ... Instead, you might think of Chess Structures as positional chess 'finishing school.' ..." - John Hartmann
https://chessbookreviews.wordpress.com/tag/chess-structures-a-grandmaster-guide/
https://www.newinchess.com/media/wysiwyg/product_pdf/7495.pdf

drmrboss

I play the first line .4............ Bf5 variation!! I analysed that variation with Stockfish for several hours , dozens to hundreds of further variations,  and it seemed very easily playable for black.

drmrboss

Well , 1500 rated guy calling 2000+ rated guy silly is a bit surprising! 

nighteyes1234
drmrboss wrote:

Well , 1500 rated guy calling 2000+ rated guy silly is a bit surprising! 

 

Not everyone playing the Caro-Kann is looking for a draw wink.png

I look to play with more risk for a chance at a win....that said, a lot of people play the exchange variation as white and dont follow it up with c4.

 

Lippy-Lion

Despite what a previous poster said playing the Bf5 lines does require learning concrete variations, in some of the lines he is walking a thin line and can easily end up in trouble.

 

My bigget objection to the caro cann at club level is it does not ask white enough questions.   I have played plenty of weak players who with white just play normal, easy to find moves and get a playable game without much trouble, and have had to suffer a few draws because of it.

 

      The other objection is against decent players black has to defend most of the game in order to emerge into a decent endgame, but in todays time limits it is very rare to have the time to play those endgames properly anyway and they just turn into a time scramble lottery.    So black spends most of the game on the back foot for not much reward.

 

Back in the day when it was 40 moves in Two hours, then adjournment then you could play endings properly, but rarely these days

Strongest_hokage1998
MickinMD wrote:

At your rating level - and also at my 1840 rating level - you should worry less about memorizing lines and study the ideas behind the opening.

The basic idea - and this also applies to the Slav Defense and to some extent to the London System (in mirror-image position) as White - is to get your Queen's Bishop to f5 or g4 before ...e6 traps it behind the Pawn Chain (it's a "Bad Bishop") as occurs in the French Defense. I love the Caro-Kann but note that you pay a price for getting your QB outside the Pawn Chain.  The typical counter-attack in both the French and the Caro-Kann begins with ....c5, but it takes 2 moves to get there in the Caro-Kann and only 1 in the French - and sometimes the c-Pawn is gone in the Caro-Kann and you have to use the b-Pawn at some point.

So you have to do more prep work in the Caro-Kann before seriously attacking White.  Typically, you want to put your Queen's Knight on d7: that way it supports c5, b6, as well as f6.

White can choose the Advance Variation with 3 e5, the Classical Variation with 3 Nc3 dxe4 4 Nxe4 Bf5, the Exchange Variation 3 exd5 cxd5 with or without the Panov Attack 4 c4 as well as some relative rare other 2nd of 3rd moves.

But in virtually ALL of them, the setup with pawns on c6, d5, e6 (c6 or d5 may have been exchanged), QB on f5 or g4, and QN on d7 is what you're aiming for and you don't have to memorize the moves. The order often naturally follows from what White does. For example, if White plays Nf3 you often have to play ...Nbd7 right away to prevent Ne4 or you may also find you need ...Bd6 to prevent White from playing Bf4 and controlling the d6 square.

After you get developed, you usually want to attack on the Queen-side.  If White chooses the Advance Variation with Pawns on c3, d4, e5, you usually want to follow standard practice and attack at the base of the Pawn Chain by sending your c- and b-Pawns forward, but if White is strong set-up there, he may be weak at f6 and you can attack there thanks to your d7-N.

Study some master games to get a feel for what works in the key variations mentioned above: a good selection of them are in chess.com's Opening Explorer and at other sites like 365chess.com.

Thank you! I probably would do so.

benonidoni

Based on my 1st 20 blitz on the caro-kann the 2nd to last picture.  The pannov, and Isolated pawn structures. Seems white knows that black knows the Carro kann with 1. c6 and trys to avoid the main lines. At least at my level. (Not shown on this site. Sorry!!)

blueemu

As White I prefer 1. e4 c6 2. d3. 

 

But then, the King's Indian Attack is an old drinking buddy of mine.