Caro Kann Players: What do you play as white?

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helltank

What does White hope to accomplish with 6.Nh3? I'm guessing he plans to play 7.Nf4 but thinkgs that 6.N1e2 would block the bishop?

Marticus42

Tiviakov's pet line leading up to 6. Nh3 brings my mind to a thought: Is the knight placed on h3  on pure calculation? Or is the position and scope of the piece as well as keeping lines open for flexibilty the main focus? 

Looking forward to trying this line when possible, and knowing the core concepts should help with positional thoughts.

helltank

Estragon, Nh3 seems a strong novelty to me. Probably not so good at club player level, but at stronger levels a novelty means 3 advantages:

1)They have to calculate over the board, meaning they make mistakes.

2)You know the line well, meaning you don't make mistakes.

3)They are thrown into a panic psychologically. Thoughts like "oh no they found a refutation to my Bg6" and "how am I going to play my pet line in the caro-kann now?" swarm through their head. 

superpejo

I play Advance variation: 1.e4 c6 2.d4 d5 3.e5 Bf5 4.Nf3 e6 5.Be2 Nd7 6.O-O Ne7 7.Nh4 Bg6 Nd2 c5 9.c3 Nc6 10. Nxg6 hxg6   and againts c5   1.e4 c6 2.d4 d5 3.e5 c5 4.dxc5 Nc6 5.Bb5 e6 6.Bb3 Ne7 7.c3 Bd7 8. Bxc6 Bxc6 9.Nf3 Nf5 10.Bd4 Nxd4

helltank
moonnie

I sometimes play Caro Kann as black (20-25% of my black games). Normaly I play e5.

I play d4 as white normaly catalan like setups against slav/qgd/nimzo and normal mainlines against KiD/Grunfeld

With black i play nimzo/Queen indian defence most of the time. Sometimes Grunfeld if against weaker players who i know will only play for a draw.

ThrillerFan

I can tell you that I swing back and forth between the Caro-Kann, Scandinavian, and Modern Defenses against 1.e4.  Against d4, I'll play the Tarrasch Defense, Nimzo-Indian/Queen's Indian, and Modern, with maybe a Slav on rare occasion.

As for White, I've played 10 different first moves as White (b3, b4, c4, d4, e4, f4, g4 [once], g3, Nc3, and Nf3), but have a strong preference for 1.d4

As for the clown that suggested 1.c3, not a good move.  Also, being up a move isn't always a benefit.  The King's Indian Attack is NOT a King's Indian Defense up a move.  In the KID, Black almost always plays f5 except maybe against the Saemish or Four Pawns.  White almost NEVER plays f4 in the KIA, but rather, h4.  I had a game a week ago yesterday that started 1.d4 g6 2.c4 Bg7 3.e4 d6 4.Nf3 Nc6 5.Be3 e5 6.d5 Ne7 with 7...f5 and 8...Nf6.  In a sense, it ended up like an "Accelerated King's Indian", but Black doesn't just get 2 free moves (avoiding ...Nd7 and ...Nf6), instead, it's a completely different game.  White isn't committed to castling right away.  It ended up a different game all together, and it ended in a draw, with White having a Rook and Knight, Black having 2 Bishops and a Knight, and both sides having f-, g-, and h-pawns.  Had there been pawns still ont he queenside, I might have a slight edge with the Bishops, but with everything on one side of the board, and the Kings there as well, it's as dead a draw as they come.

ThrillerFan
moonnie wrote:

I sometimes play Caro Kann as black (20-25% of my black games). Normaly I play e5.

I play d4 as white normaly catalan like setups against slav/qgd/nimzo and normal mainlines against KiD/Grunfeld

With black i play nimzo/Queen indian defence most of the time. Sometimes Grunfeld if against weaker players who i know will only play for a draw.

A Catalan setup against the Slav is bad.  The Catalan should only be played after Black has committed to ...e6 with the Bishop behind the pawn chain (i.e. 1.d4 d5 2.c4 e6 3.Nf3 Nf6 4.g3 or 1.d4 Nf6 2.c4 e6 3.g3).  Lines like 1.d4 d5 2.c4 c6 3.Nf3 Nf6 4.g3 are not good for White at all.

PortlandPatzer
ThrillerFan wrote:

I can tell you that I swing back and forth between the Caro-Kann, Scandinavian, and Modern Defenses against 1.e4.  Against d4, I'll play the Tarrasch Defense, Nimzo-Indian/Queen's Indian, and Modern, with maybe a Slav on rare occasion.

As for White, I've played 10 different first moves as White (b3, b4, c4, d4, e4, f4, g4 [once], g3, Nc3, and Nf3), but have a strong preference for 1.d4

As for the clown that suggested 1.c3, not a good move.  Also, being up a move isn't always a benefit.  The King's Indian Attack is NOT a King's Indian Defense up a move.  In the KID, Black almost always plays f5 except maybe against the Saemish or Four Pawns.  White almost NEVER plays f4 in the KIA, but rather, h4.  I had a game a week ago yesterday that started 1.d4 g6 2.c4 Bg7 3.e4 d6 4.Nf3 Nc6 5.Be3 e5 6.d5 Ne7 with 7...f5 and 8...Nf6.  In a sense, it ended up like an "Accelerated King's Indian", but Black doesn't just get 2 free moves (avoiding ...Nd7 and ...Nf6), instead, it's a completely different game.  White isn't committed to castling right away.  It ended up a different game all together, and it ended in a draw, with White having a Rook and Knight, Black having 2 Bishops and a Knight, and both sides having f-, g-, and h-pawns.  Had there been pawns still ont he queenside, I might have a slight edge with the Bishops, but with everything on one side of the board, and the Kings there as well, it's as dead a draw as they come.

I actually play f4 in the KIA with very good results in OTB matches where I am at, usually playing against players from Class B USCF to Expert Rating. There really is nothing wrong with f4 in the KIA if the conditons are suited for it. As for what the KIA is and is not, the KIA is a system that White can and sometimes adopts, against nearly all Black replies. I have initiated it with horrible moves like c3 and d3, and normal moves like e4 and Nf3. In fact, I play this opening almost exclusively now against the CK, d6 and e6 Sicilian Defenses, the French and several D branch openings from ECO with very good results.

Narmi_Helas

I play king's pawn, queen's pawn, reti and english as white.

Against the caro-kann I either try to play either the shirov or short advance variation or panov- botvinik attack. However, on the whole I don't face the caro-kann all that often. I play the caro-kann fairly regularly as black as it gives an awesome endgames position and opponents have a tough time playing it as white for some reason. 

In response to d4 I currently aim to play the semi-slav or the nimzo-indian as I am taking a break from playing the benoni.

In response to the sicilian I play either the alapin variation, a bb5 line or against 1. e4 c5 2. Nf3 e6 I play the KIA.

PortlandPatzer

I like the Bb5 move in the Sicilian though I will usually play the KIA alot more here. Though the Moscow is pretty fun to get in to with Black sometimes. Nice opening choices Narmi.

Danny_BLT

e4 for white, sicillain and nimzo indian as black. looking into italian game, dutch and english. let the good times roll :)

Expertise87
pfren wrote:
ThrillerFan wrote:

A Catalan setup against the Slav is bad.  The Catalan should only be played after Black has committed to ...e6 with the Bishop behind the pawn chain (i.e. 1.d4 d5 2.c4 e6 3.Nf3 Nf6 4.g3 or 1.d4 Nf6 2.c4 e6 3.g3).  Lines like 1.d4 d5 2.c4 c6 3.Nf3 Nf6 4.g3 are not good for White at all.

You are wrong.

I'm quite fond of 1.d4 d5 2.c4 c6 3.Nf3 Nf6 4.g3 Bf5 5.Nc3 e6 6.Nh4 Be4 7.f3 Bg6 8.Qb3 Qb6 9.Nxg6 hxg6 10.c5 for White.

1.d4 d5 2.c4 c6 3.Nf3 Nf6 4.g3 Bf5 5.Nc3 e6 6.Nh4 dxc4 7.Nxf5 exf5 8.e3 is quite playable too.

1.d4 d5 2.c4 c6 3.Nf3 Nf6 4.g3 Bg4 might be a better try at equalizing.

Eseles
pfren wrote:

Tiviakov's pet line against the Caro is quite interesting, quite safe and requires very little memorization- white's plan is easy to follow.

Normally this brings up positions from the 6.Bc4 (and N1e2) variation, but Black's choices are more limited via the 6.Nh3 move order.

I had read this and just played it for the first time at the final round of a tournament where i took the 1st place :) (+5=0-0)

Of course it was just a chess.com 10min <1200 tournament and i guess we went quickly out of book and the game has mistakes (not that it lsted long), but i'm happy i got a gold medal and this idea helped me :P



Eseles
pfren wrote:

Not bad, but personally I would avoid the bishop trade on d3 and keep all pieces in by 8.Bc4, which I'm sure that gives white a considerable advantage. On the other hand, 6...h6 hardly is a bright move.

Thanks for commenting :)

I basically played Bd3 cause i'm used to something like these variations (i'm not sure how good they are)


@Metaknight: nice move, didn't cross my mind :-O (10 min. game)

superpejo
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superpejo

what attack is it in caro kann ? 1. e4 c6 2. Nf3 d5 3. exd5 cxd5 4. Bb5+ Nc6 5. d4 Nf6 6. O-O Bf5 7. Nc3 Rc8 8. Bg5 e6 9. Re1 Be7 10.Qe2

Expertise87

That is just some bogus Exchange Variation where Black equalizes with no trouble.

EliasAStern

@Aseles that is the incorrect move order for black.  Instead of 7...Nf6 he should play 7...Nd7 to stop the white knight coming to e5 with tempo. In that case I think the mainline is just to exchange bishops.

Expertise87

EliasAStern the move-order is fine, and has been played by many strong grandmasters, although Nd7 to prevent Ne5 is quite well justified as well.