Catalan EXPERTS - Should black go Closed or Open??

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arcillaking

I'm trying to figure out if the best response to the Catalan is to take dxc4 (Open) or not (Closed). Both responses are playable but I want to find out which suits players who are more positional & don't want to study so many lines.

  • Is one response sharper than the other?
  • What do you choose to play and why?
  • If you are Catalan player as white what do you dislike facing more?
Uhohspaghettio1

I think someone who plays the Catalan will like it more when black takes c4, at least at the lower levels, I know I do when black does this sort of thing from the Nimzo-Indian. Taking has to be sharper, it seems like the Queen's gambit accepted but with a dangerous diagonal for white. 

ThrillerFan

The delayed accepted is best.

1.d4 d5 2.c4 e6 3.Nf3 Nf6 4.g3 Be7! 5.Bg2 O-O 6.O-O dxc4!

It is the same as the "Main Line" - 1.d4 d5 2.c4 e6 3.Nf3 Nf6 4.g3 dxc4 5.Bg2 Be7 6.O-O O-O, but it limits the possible deviations.  Black cannot play the 5...Nc6 or 5...a6 lines, but if Black intends to play the main line anyway, why give white additional options (Qd1-a4-xc4).  Not saying White's alternatives are better than the main line, but why give him extra options that he does not need to have?  Just more work for you.

 

Keep in mind, unlike the other post, that I am speaking OBJECTIVELY and not based on what White wants.  I am speaking strictly from a theoretical standpoint!  It is like the Sicilian, where 2.b4 may not be what Black wants, but if you asked me for the best line against the Sicilian, could care less what Black wants - it is point blank 2.Nf3 and 3.d4!

Uhohspaghettio1

You really are crazy. 

FizzyBand

Yeah the 6...dxc4 line @ThrillerFan is mentioning is objectively best. If you don't know what to do after though something closed with c6 is probably better.

Commando_Droid

I think Closed is better. It is solid. dxc4 is more risky, and you have to know the lines. However, both are playable options. I go Bb4+ Bd2 Be7.

sndeww

dxc4 is more testing (objectively), but white is usually able to generate some pressure, so I would not recommend it for fast games. On the other hand, I find the closed catalan to be very frustrating to play against as white.

TwoMove

Personally agree with ThrillerFan. Black has very simple aim of neutralising Bg2 with b5 and Bb7, or Bd7-c6 after a4, and looking for the c5 break, In lower level chess the advantages white tries to work with, like a weak c6 square, players lack the technical ability to make any use of.

For occasions were black looking for something more interesting 7Qc2 b6 8Ne5 Qxp is quite a fun line, with plenty of compensation for the exchange.

 

benonidoni

The main objective for black is not to let white open up the center or create passed pawn on D file. The Catalan bishop is very important for white in this opening to win. Whichever for you is easier to force exchange of bishops and keep pawns fixed in center will equalize for black. I agree with thriller fan on the dxc4 in a delayed fashion. The immediate dxc4 gives white easy q-a4 check then captures c4. At the lower level this is very basic. The bogo's {Bb4} are obvious but seem simple to me as white. The closed with Be7 and the other bishop to b7 seem to have the most theory and can be the most complex leading to equality with perfect play. Check out the quality chess book on the Catalan for white which is an excellent paperback. 

ShamusMcFlannigan
ThrillerFan wrote:

The delayed accepted is best.

1.d4 d5 2.c4 e6 3.Nf3 Nf6 4.g3 Be7! 5.Bg2 O-O 6.O-O dxc4!

It is the same as the "Main Line" - 1.d4 d5 2.c4 e6 3.Nf3 Nf6 4.g3 dxc4 5.Bg2 Be7 6.O-O O-O, but it limits the possible deviations.  Black cannot play the 5...Nc6 or 5...a6 lines, but if Black intends to play the main line anyway, why give white additional options (Qd1-a4-xc4).  Not saying White's alternatives are better than the main line, but why give him extra options that he does not need to have?  Just more work for you.

 

Keep in mind, unlike the other post, that I am speaking OBJECTIVELY and not based on what White wants.  I am speaking strictly from a theoretical standpoint!  It is like the Sicilian, where 2.b4 may not be what Black wants, but if you asked me for the best line against the Sicilian, could care less what Black wants - it is point blank 2.Nf3 and 3.d4!

I play the open as black (dxc4 a6 nc6 line). As far as I know white taking back with the queen is just too slow... I rarely face the catalan though so I haven't kept up with any new ideas. Has the eval changed? I wasn't aware there was a "best" line against the catalan.