Countering the Sicilian SM gambit

In that case, i guess I would tempt my fate and pick the b2 pawn (and eventually the rook) after Nf3.

I think 4.e5? Nc6 5.Qc3 Ne4 6.Qe3 Qa5+ 7.c3 is more or less forced, but then after 7...Qxe5 8.Nf3 Qe6 white does not even have a lead in development to show for the pawn.

Anyway, 4.e5 is a genuine lemon.

Ahhh. I remember now. 4. e5 Nc6 5. Qf3 Ne4 6. Qe3 Qa5+ 7. Nd2! And now Black can’t take the pawn except by trading down on White’s terms.

Looks like just a pawn down to me.

And after 11.f4 I would be tempted to play 11...Ng4 and eventually ...Ne3 soon. If Black manages to swap this knight for a white bishop, then the party is over.

Yeah after either 11… Nc6 or 11… Ng4 Black is presumably ever so slightly better, although White still definitely has play. You were correct in your assumption that 4… e5 does lose a pawn by force, although I honestly wouldn’t hate the position which arises from it.

Not really. 12. Kd2 performs the crucial job of protecting the c-pawn, because 12. Nf3 Nxc2+ 13. Kd1 Nxa1! And Black picks up a full rook at no cost and eyes the a-pawn allowing the knight to escape. It may fail to 12… 0-0, but most opponents are going to take the free rook, as there doesn’t appear to be any counterplay for White, although there very much so is.

E6, F5, Kd2 nobodys getting a break in this game

Lol yeah no absolutely not. I love doing this sort of thing though, doing deep analysis of lines just because I can, I’ve genuinely spent probably 200 hours in the past year alone doing it. The funniest part is that I’ve actually analyzed a very similar line to this in the past. In the Chekhover (this line except insert 2. Nf3 d6) there’s genuine theory after Nf6 e5. Goes something like this IIRC.
 

It's not very clever wasting your time on something that has been convincingly refuted more than 20 years ago.

The position after 12...e5! (with a clear advantage to Black) has ben played dozens of times, and white scores less than 15%.

Also, white has a very poor score after 12...Kc6 and 12...e6. 12...Nd5 is certainly inferior to all these three lines.

Ahhh, I see. Yeah after 12… e5 13. Bxe5 Bd6 14. Bxd4 Re8+, White looks worse. I’d personally try for 15. Kd1 to keep the DSB on the board and the a7-g1 diagonal, but yeah it appears that Black is doing better here.

In your first game white could transpose to an alipin as they did in your example or they could try for d5 and get a Old Benoni where white had played e4 rather than c4. Im seeing alot of weak kingsides for black in most of the variations I went over but there isnt too many glaring issues with it besides that.

In your other variation I simply dont really understand the move 2.. Nf6 because after something like 3. e5 Nd5 4. c4 Nc7 5. dxc5 whites just simply up a pawn and you never getting that back, at least not without losing something more important.

as dictated in diagram in post #32 after 3.e5 Nd5 4.c4 Nc7 5.dxc5 then 5.e6 and white cannot defend their pawn so black will win it back

The pawn on c5 is won back Queens Gambit style !

Nah, the whole 2...Nf6? thingy is just bad.

Sorry I wasnt very specific with that my point with "whites just simply up a pawn and you never getting that back, at least not without losing something more important." was reffering to after 5... e6 white can stop the bishop with 6.Qg4

If you need any further, more specific details about my analysis Id be happy to share. Heres an example of how this could play out.

First of all thats a really bad move - 7.Bg5, f6 looses a rook, f5 looses a queen, Be7 allows for 8. Nf3 and now you loose a pawn. analyse your moves, cmon.

5... Nc6 is actually an amazing move and I was slightly ignoring that in my analysis because of a reccomened move so ill go in to it now.

There is a bit of a gambit with 6. Nc3 Nxe5 7. Nf3 Nxf3+ 8. Qxf3 because you have no peices past the 7th rank so thats a bit funny but I do kind of like my pawn so imma look more in depth with 6. Nf3 now black has a few options

6... d6 is the first to come to mind and it is pretty strait forward after 7. cxd6 exd6 8. Bg5 Be7 9. Bxe7 Qxe7 10. Qxd6 basically white has a decent 2 point lead and Just wants to trade everything, but first white will try trade queens, go for Nbd2, and long castle. correct me if im wrong but I cant see much of a threat without queens on the board so the early rook controlling the d file will be very good for white.

6... d5 gets the same position if white uses en passant there could be a better move, but I aint stockfish so Imma stick with what I got.

6... g6 now visually I really like this move it kinda just ignors that black hasnt pushed either center pawn and the knights cant do much right now, but really how do you stop black winning back the pawn. I need a second opinion on this but white needs to waste some serious tempo for that pawn and honestly it could be better just to give it up.

6... Ne6 is another option and is kinda just a swaped move order for g6

If anyone can counter 6... g6 id really like to see. I have been staring at this position way to long.