Danish Gambit Accepted, Chigorin Defense

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Lalit0007

In Danish Gambit Accepted white wins maximum time, but I have seen in opening explorer Danish Gambit Accepted, Chigorin Defense it is draw 100%. Then, how to break black's defence?

Hadron
Fiveofswords wrote:

anyway i would suggest simply nc3. black better play c6. then nge2. you have to play ne2 rather than f3 because otherwise d5 is annoying

The thing is though to play d5 is not the point of playing 5...Qe7. As Tatakower and DuMont point out in Classic book '500 Master Games of Chess". 5...Qe7 is played to intend the threat of Qb4+ while evacuating the Queen for Queen side castling. Indeed in some circumstances to play d5 after having played 5...Qe7 can present White with a strong attack

 

Usually what is seen with Chigron's Defence is Qe7, c6, d6, Be6 and Nd7 followed by 0-0-0 of course depending on the moves employed by White. Basically to try and produce a solid position for Black before returning fire. Check this game out. Look how White positions his peices on the open files against Blacks slow build up but fails to react in time which allows Black to untie his position only then with a well time d5 (fater 17 moves!) and Qf4+

Good books on the subject are "Danish Gambit" by W. John Lutes and the above mentioned book by Tatakower and DuMont

Dolphin27

Hadron wrote "Indeed in some circumstances to play d5 after having played 5...Qe7 can present White with a strong attack"


Should read, "If Black plays 7.Qc2, one of the two moves that stops d5, then d5 is a mistake because Black loses an exchange."

Hadron wrote "Usually what is seen with Chigron's Defence is Qe7, c6, d6, Be6 and Nd7 followed by 0-0-0 of course depending on the moves employed by White."

0-0-0 is a mistake by White against the Chigorn defense, and in general isn't a good idea for White in the Danish accepted regadless of Black's fifth move. Better is to simply castle short. Put that game you posted of Mieses vs Chigorin in an engine and you'll see, 0-0-0 was basically the game losing mistake. The advantage shifts nearly a point in Black's favor after this move.

As long as White remembers to just play Ne2 and 0-0 Black is pretty much f'd. It's not easy for Black to castle short in such a position with the queen blocking the kingside bishop, and 0-0-0 which is supposedly the idea, is nearly suicidal due to the open b and c files.

Hadron

Well, a couple of things.

Any monkey can plug moves into a engine and claim this that and the other thing. The thing is chess is a game for the playing and chess openings are only as good the person your playing them against and under what circumstances. Case in point, I played in an on-line simul against GM Yasser Seirawan. I used Alapin's variation (3...Bb4) of the Lopez and had a clear advanatge even after a blunder. I lost on time but he was very gracious in telling my attack was strong and that he was he was lucky. The point is does this make Alapin's idea brilliant, sound or even playable because I almost did the unthinkable? NO..I would be the last person to even argue as such. Alapin's 3...Bb4 is....crap but it alomost worked in this instant because one it was a simul, two it was fast time control and three, the move that causes the most trouble for Black, theoretically speaking, is not at all that widely known.

All this aside though, I am sure you are quite right when you say ones engine considers 0-0-0 a mistake but then again don't most engines (if not all) consider the Danish gambit to advantageous for Black? Yet it still gets tried....so go figure.

And finally, please do not make the assumption that fiveofswords as made, just because I laid out the plan behind Chigron's Qe7 does NOT mean in anyway that I endorse it.

Dolphin27

I'm pretty sure the succinct annotions in 500 Master Games of Chess also indicate d5 is a threat after c6, and that Hadron misconstrued those annotations for us. The book is findable for free on googlebooks.

Engines saying 0-0-0 is a big mistake by White just confirms a general rule of the Danish gambit I already know from experience. Castling long is a mistake because later Black can find counterplay and resources due to White's exposed king.

Take the game posted above, Mieses vs Chigorin 1902, if Chigorin doesn't have 19.Qf4+ he's lost, and he has this saving check thanks to White's exposed king that castled into the open.

kitty-chang

i always defeated with this goring system.