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Defences to the Parham Attack

  • #701
    2...c5 720
    42.6% 24.9% 32.5%


    Seems like typical opening results. I'll admit that it scores better for white than the parham does.

  • #702

    Even in Gavinator's DB the ruy scores better than the parham, and his has to be the worst DB.


    Ruy - scores 55.7%

    Parham - scores 52.95%


    And that is the only database where white scores more than 50% with the parham.


    Note - % is not win %. Instead it is the % score.

    % = Win % + (1/2 x Draw %)

  • #703

    That's through move 5, so Gavinator can't say it includes people who don't know any lines.

  • #704

    Chess tempo


    Parham score = 37.5%

    Ruy score = 56.6%

  • #705

    I think they are starting to believe us. The Parham is bad.

  • #706



    Parham score = 12.5%

    Ruy score = 57.25%

  • #707



    ruy score = 56.8%

    Parham score = 36.4%

  • #708

    CS, add one more move at least. At least one of the white wins was 2... Ke7.

  • #709

    That's why, I only used the players who played 2... Nc6

    Also, ruy I was going mainline through 5. 0-0.


    Without a paid membership I can't go any further on the parham, there aren't enough games.

  • #710

    All of the other DB's except chessgames.com I went through 5. 0-0 and 5. Ne2.

  • #711



    I don't like it either, but when I went through 3. Bb5 and 2. Qh5 Gavi was complaining that low rated players were skewing the DB's.

  • #712
    AcivilizedGentleman wrote:

    Who is the least likeable troll on these forums? I composed a list.


    3. Gavinator actually has some pretty funny ways of trolling every now and then. funnily enough, he trolls the best when he actually isnt talking about the godamn parham all the time, when he is making jetfighter rage so hard that he gets deaththreats it's genuine fun. This is why gavinator is almost close to being likeable. It's a damn shame he insists on keeping this up (even whatup was mature enough to stop eventually)

    2. Sungolian, Every single one of sungs posts is a godamn waste to read. You don't really get mad or irritated at them, you just wonder to yourself why he even bothered to post in the first place. It's painfully clear that nobody likes him and that he wont be liked by anyone.

    1. Yereslov, this guy genuinely manages to irritate people with his complete retardation. He has not made a single redeeming post and even though everyone knows he is a 1000% troll we keep posting to him because of the retarded shit he posts (unlike sungolian who people tends to avoid nowadays -- much like real life for him I suspect).

    Final notes:
    Gavi, give up the trolling and people will start liking you, you're almost charismatic enough to be civilized.

    Sung, please leave chess.com, we wont miss you, I promise.

    Yereslov, how long are you going to be able to keep up your insanity?

    They actually banned whatupyodog's IP address, I don't know why tbh though.

  • #713

    It's amazing, shepi and CS can't find lines against the Parham, so they resort to using databases that only have like 4 games in them. Helzeth, why aren't they on the list?

  • #714

    Gavinator I found just relized why it sounds like you are on some really good stuff... you are a Libertarian.

  • #715
    The_Gavinator wrote:

    It's amazing, shepi and CS can't find lines against the Parham, so they resort to using databases that only have like 4 games in them. Helzeth, why aren't they on the list?


    I also used the DB that you used lol.

    However, you make a good point (the one we were making to you when you used one with just 17 games), so I need to ask a question to all of you:


    Does anyone have access to Chessbase or Fritz13's databases? If so could you post the results for the parham and ruy lopez here. Hopefully those major DB's have more than 4 games.

  • #716

    And Gavinator, when you say that I lost to whatupyodog, you are using a database of 2 games (which is less than 4):


    50% - White win

    0% - Draw

    50% - Black win


    You should note that in every database given the ruy lopez scores better than this.



    Fine print: Given the past few posts, you might think I like the ruy lopez. I actually play 1.d4. I am just trying to show that openings that are considered sound are better than the parham.

    More fine print: Gavinator is right that the ruy has a higher draw % than the parham, and in his database (only) the parham wins more than the ruy. Nevertheless, even in his 17 game database the ruy scores better because most of the draws the ruy creates would have been wins for black in the parham. It's better to draw than lose in my opinion, and I believe most people will agree with this.

  • #717

    I think that databases aren't a very good thing to test the Parham, because that:

    1. There is no actual defined Parham theory.

    2. There is many people who play it for the 4-move mate then get crushed after.

    3. There is just a lack of games, nobody has found more than 20 games or so in a single databases, while many of these databases have thousands of Ruy Lopez Games.

    P.S.- I didn't try to find a database where the Parham won more than others. I literally searched "Chess Opening Explorer", and the chessgames.com came up first, but you have to pay for full access, in chess365 there was more games and you didn't have to pay for full access. That's the DB I always use, I didn't find one for the Parham.

  • #718

    Please be relevant, helpful and nice!

  • #719

    The bottom line here is the Parham is a perfectly valid opening, that's fine to play.

  • #720

    Somehow I think I am going to side with not only the better player, but the more expierienced person, the engines, GM's, and my own gut feeling, and say this opening is a POS (for those who don't know that acronym google it.)


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