Fellow 1. d4 players: Should I allow or block the nimzo?

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CaroKannEnjoyer02

As of recent, I have decided to switch to 1. d4, along with in general changing my repertoire.
To other 1. d4 players, I have a question: How do you play against the east indian?

I am thinking of 3 things against it, being 3. Nc3 (allowing the nimzo), 3. Nf3 (blocking it), or 3. g3 (the catalan).

I just want to hear some thoughts, as I dont know what to do.

ThrillerFan

What the hell is the East Indian? Based on the rest of your comment, guessing it is one of the unmentioned Nf6/e6 lines, like the Bogo-Indian, Queen's Indian, etc.

Basically it amounts to what you want to deal with.

3.Nc3 allows the Nimzo-Indian, to which White has numerous options, but it also allows you to play the strongest line against the Modern Benoni, the Flick Knife Attack.

By playing 3.Nf3, you need to know Bogo-Indian theory, Queen's Indian theory (3...b6, which is no good after 3.Nc3 due to 4.e4, but is fine after 3.Nf3), and QGD lines where White commits to Nf3 (via 3...d5), and also the Benoni, 3...c5, which many play this way. They play Nimzo'-Indian if 3.Nc3 and Modern Benoni if 3.Nf3 or 3.g3.

With 3.g3, you avoid the Queen's Indian, but still have the Bogo-Catalan, The Catalan itself with 3...d5, and the Fianchetto Benoni with 3...c5

That is the thing about 1.d4, 1.c4, and 1.Nf3. Which lines do you want to deal with? Some players don't open d4, but are willing to transpose to many QP openings. Some play 1.Nf3 or 1.c4 and avoid QP openings completely.

Open 1.c4 and you have to deal with 1...c5, 1...e5, and then be willing to either play the Reti (1.c4 e6 2.Nf3 d5 3.b3 or 3.g3) or else go into a QP opening, like 1.c4 e6 2.Nc3 d5 3.d4 or 3.cxd5 exd5 4.d4)

Open 1.Nf3 and you avoid 1.c4 e5, but now have 1.Nf3 d5 and if 2.c4, deal with Reti lines that the English doesn't allow like 2...d4 or 2...dxc4.

It's a case of pick your poison and nobody can make the choice for you.

For me, I play 2 openings as White in slow time controls. 1.b4 and 1.c4.

When I play 1.c4, I of course allow the 1...e5 and 1...c5 English. Against 1...e6 or 1...c6 followed by ...d5, I allow the QGD and Slav and play d4. I will transpose to the Kings Indian (1.c4 Nf6 2.Nf3 g6 3.Nc3 Bg7 4.e4 - NOT 4.d4, which would allow the Grunfeld - 4...d6 5.d4), but NOT the Grunfeld or Nimzo-Indian, and execute the Anti-Grunfeld (1.c4 Nf6 2.Nc3 d5 3.cxd5 Nxd5 4.Nf3 g6 5.e4 Nxc3 6.dxc3) and Anti-Nimzo/Mikenas-Flohr (1.c4 Nf6 2.Nc3 e6 3.e4).

So pick your poison!

CaroKannEnjoyer02

Isnt east indian this?

MaetsNori

1... Nf6 is generally just called the "Indian" game or the Indian Defense.

Ethan_Brollier

That’s an interesting question. Personally, I’ve played both 3. Nc3 and 3. Nf3, but I currently play 3. Nc3 almost exclusively. My reasoning is that if you play 3. Nc3, all you need to know is the NID and QGD, meanwhile, if you play 3. Nf3, you have to know the QID, BID, Benoni, and QGD, and if you play 3. g3, all that achieves is a Catalan as opposed to a QGD and not needing to learn a QID.

Also, I’d highly recommend the NID as Black anyways, especially if you were previously a QGD player, as the Nimzo is just a better QGD and it allows to play a QGD against 3. Nf3.

chessterd5

this is all good information.

d4, c4, and Nc3 are theoretically whites best moves but they do allow black to choose whatever defense he wishes to play.

some games can be whittled down by playing 1.c4 or 1.Nf3 first and a delayed d4, d3, or not at all. The systems with g3 and Bg2 are another option.

Study Victor Kroichnoi. he was a master of transposition in these types of games.

I would also recommend getting an MCO and actually playing through with board and peices all the d4, c4 and Nf3 type openings. this will give you a practical understanding of the positions. Not just an academic knowledge of them.

MaetsNori
chessterd5 wrote:

this is all good information.

d4, c4, and Nc3 are theoretically whites best moves but they do allow black to choose whatever defense he wishes to play.

some games can be whittled down by playing 1.c4 or 1.Nf3 first and a delayed d4, d3, or not at all. The systems with g3 and Bg2 are another option.

Study Victor Kroichnoi. he was a master of transposition in these types of games.

I would also recommend getting an MCO and actually playing through with board and peices all the d4, c4 and Nf3 type openings. this will give you a practical understanding of the positions. Not just an academic knowledge of them.

Well said.

Delaying or avoiding c4 is also an option.

In positions where I have d4 on on the board, I often refrain from playing c4.

Usually I'll play c3 instead (or keep the pawn on c2), and go into a Colle, London, or Torre - as I find these a bit more "off the beaten path" than the standard QG complexes.

chessterd5

true.

delaying c4 and playing Nc3 going into a Veresov is also an option.

1.Nf3 is probably the most transpositional of all the choices. There is always a chance of move ordering an opponent into an inferior position.

ThrillerFan
CaroKannEnjoyer02 wrote:

Isnt east indian this?

The opening is undetermined at this point:

3.Nc3 d5 - Queen's Gambit Declined

3.Nc3 Bb4 - Nimzo-Indian Defense

3.Nf3 b6 - Queen's Indian Defense

3.Nf3 Bb4+ - Bogo-Indian Defense

3.Nf3 d5 - Queen's Gambit Declined

3.Nf3 c5 - Modern Benoni

3.g3 d5 - Catalan

3.g3 c5 - Modern Benoni - Fianchetto Variation

3.g3 Bb4 - Bogo-Catalan

ThrillerFan
Ethan_Brollier wrote:

That’s an interesting question. Personally, I’ve played both 3. Nc3 and 3. Nf3, but I currently play 3. Nc3 almost exclusively. My reasoning is that if you play 3. Nc3, all you need to know is the NID and QGD, meanwhile, if you play 3. Nf3, you have to know the QID, BID, Benoni, and QGD, and if you play 3. g3, all that achieves is a Catalan as opposed to a QGD and not needing to learn a QID.

Also, I’d highly recommend the NID as Black anyways, especially if you were previously a QGD player, as the Nimzo is just a better QGD and it allows to play a QGD against 3. Nf3.

Technically, you still need to know the Modern Benoni. Black can still play 3...c5 against 3.Nc3, it just doesn't avoid the critical Flick-Knife Attack (4.d5 exd5 5.cxd5 d6 6.e4 g6 7.f4 Bg7 8.Bb5+!.

All you basically avoid are the Queen's Indian (3...b6? 4.e4!) and Bogo-Indian.

tygxc

"3. Nc3 (allowing the nimzo), 3. Nf3 (blocking it), or 3. g3 (the catalan)."
++ All three are good. It is a matter of taste.