French v Caro Kann

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Chris_the_Diabetic

What makes the French Defense more popular than the Caro Kann? Is it better? 

As a lower rated player, I like the CK because it allows more freedom for my queen's bishop. With that said, the French is more popular and if it is a "better" defense against e4 I would like to pick it up. Some explanations please.

Lorgish

In my understanding, French is quieter and not as sharp as Caro Kann.

Aleksandr_Medved

The Caro-Kann is a more solid option, the french offers better counter-attack with the direct "c5" instead of the slower and calmer "c6-d5". In exchange for this dynamism the french defence leaves black with a passive light-square bishop but this can be remedied in the middlegame and the endgame.

kindaspongey

https://www.newinchess.com/media/wysiwyg/product_pdf/7611.pdf

https://www.newinchess.com/media/wysiwyg/product_pdf/7800.pdf

TitanChess666
The Caro and French are very similar, and often transpose to each other. The. Major difference is that the caro allows the bishop to move out and usually you have waste a tempo pushing c6-c5
Aleksandr_Medved
TitanChess666 wrote:
The Caro and French are very similar, and often transpose to each other. The. Major difference is that the caro allows the bishop to move out and usually you have waste a tempo pushing c6-c5

The french is characterised ny the direct c5 push while in the caro c6 is played first to develop the lightsquared bishop while still playing d5 and only then is e6 played.

They do not transpose at all unless you play a triangle whith the pawn-moves "c6-d5-e6" which is way worse than this two openings.

poucin
TitanChess666 a écrit :
The Caro and French are very similar, and often transpose to each other. The. Major difference is that the caro allows the bishop to move out and usually you have waste a tempo pushing c6-c5

Could u tell us a line where Caro and French are transposing?

testaaaaa

they are similar due to the pawn structures  but they do not transpose 

testaaaaa

you really should not play the french if you play a lower rated guy who is content with a draw (exchange french) but it is perfectly ok if you play guys who are slightly above your rating (rubinstein french) 

Aleksandr_Medved

I don't think people who have played and studied the french would say that the exchange variation allows white to draw. If black wants to go for a win he can delay castling until white castles and then go for an opposite castling middlegame. We have known that the exchange does not equal a draw since Nimzowitsch's "My System" and before.

ed1975

French (and Sicilian) drive me mad as White happy.png

testaaaaa

I can think of no more drawish opening than the exchange french. 

IM chessexplained says that all the black options to imbalance the game for example opposite castling are not that great.

Of course there are players who play for the win with the exchange as white like rapport did against blübaum 2 times

Aleksandr_Medved
testaaaaa wrote:

 

IM chessexplained says that all the black options to imbalance the game for example opposite castling are not that great.

Of course that are players who play for the win with the exchange as white like rapport did against blübaum 2 times but to say white has no chances to go for the draw is absolutely false

I realise I came out a bit dogmatic. What I mean't to say what does the french exchange isn't a mgic drawing bullet as many people seem to claim. While imbalancing the game is always risky it is a perfectly playable system. I believe GM Francisco Vallejo, has a video-series on the subject. I do not mean to say that the exchange is bad for white but I will double down on my initial proposition: The exchange French is not risk free for white and draws are not garanteed, the position is equal and imbalances can be achieved.

opticRED

I used to play both the caro and the french but now I am sticking to the french and i really love it when people play the exchange against me. Its a matter of taste and pawn structure preference. If you really want to play the french with a little taste of caro (... Nd7 caro) then the french rubinstein is the line for you.

maxezer

I can both play with black french and caro-cann in the same time using my fave move order- 1e4 d6 2 d4 Nf6 3 Nc3 c6!? 4 Nf3 Bg4 and then I usually follow with e6,Be7,0-0 and play d6-d5 getting some kind of french structure if white plays in response e5 or getting Caro if white takes on d5. The only issue for black in this type move order is whites aggresive 4 f4 leading to a complicated sharp game with equal chances but white probably gets an edge here.

maxezer
poucin написал:
TitanChess666 a écrit :
The Caro and French are very similar, and often transpose to each other. The. Major difference is that the caro allows the bishop to move out and usually you have waste a tempo pushing c6-c5

Could u tell us a line where Caro and French are transposing?

I can both play with black french and caro-cann in the same time using my fave move order- 1e4 d6 2 d4 Nf6 3 Nc3 c6!? 4 Nf3 Bg4 and then I usually follow with e6,Be7,0-0 and play d6-d5 getting some kind of french structure if white plays in response e5 or getting Caro if white takes on d5. The only issue for black in this type move order is whites aggresive 4 f4 leading to a complicated sharp game with equal chances but white probably gets an edge here.

 

Aleksandr_Medved
maxezer wrote:

I can both play with black french and caro-cann in the same time using my fave move order- 1e4 d6 2 d4 Nf6 3 Nc3 c6!? 4 Nf3 Bg4 and then I usually follow with e6,Be7,0-0 and play d6-d5 getting some kind of french structure if white plays in response e5 or getting Caro if white takes on d5. The only issue for black in this type move order is whites aggresive 4 f4 leading to a complicated sharp game with equal chances but white probably gets an edge here.

That is a czech pirc not a french or a carokann, both the french and the caro employ a direct d5 as the second move.

Lorgish
ed1975 wrote:

French (and Sicilian) drive me mad as White

Man, did you know that there's a "Combination" of the two (the name surpasses me at the moment, but I did study  it a bit):

Not as hard to play as the Dragon lines, I'm told.

 

techieji2017
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testaaaaa

you mean the paulsen sicilians (taimanov or kan) the taimanov sicilian features a early Nc6 the Kan a early a6