French vs Caro Kann?

 Which is better? Which has less theory? Which has better win rates?

I already know that the french is more aggressive, the caro is a bit more passive, the french does not lose a tempo, etc. 

All I want to know is which is better for black in general, which is better for beginners, which is easier to play, and which one puts pressure on white.

Thanks

I play both, and both have pros and cons. A Caro-Kann player would tell you the French has a problem with the c8 bishop and it's true, but the Caro-Kann also has a problem with the b8 knight. The French is double edged and very sharp and the Caro-Kann is calmer and more solid. It all comes down to the way you wanna play. If you don't wanna lose, use the Caro-Kann. If you want to play for a win since the beginning, play the French.

In terms of theory, I'd say the French is way heavier than the Caro-Kann, more lines to learn. My advice is learn both because you'd be fully covered vs 1.e4 and will have two styles of playing. Let me know if you need more advice.

Good luck.

EDIT: To answer your final questions, which one is better? Both are good. Which one is easier to play and better for beginners? The Caro-Kann. Which one puts more pressure on White? The French.

One is not "better" than the other.

The "big four", namely 1...e5, 1...c5, 1...e6, and 1...c6, are equally good, and is a matter of taste.

They are better than the other 16 legal moves, however.

 Thank you, that really explains a lot. I searched on google, but in the end it was just a bunch of forums where there was just fighting. Now that you have cleared most things up for me, I've realized, the french is more my style. The things wavering me away from it are : 1) The fact that the light squared bishop is bad. 2) There is more theory. 3) The Caro - Kann is supposedly better for beginners

They both have simple variations, and complicated/messy variations, so it's not really accurate to describe one as passive and one as aggressive, etc.

Also, the Caro-Kann does not necessarily "lose a tempo" compared to the French (moving the c-pawn twice, for example, with c6+c5), as the French player will eventually burn an extra tempo to develop his queen bishop in many lines (for example: b6+Bb7, b6+ba6, or Bd7+Bc6).

So the general tempi count, between the two openings, is often the same.

Personally, I feel the Caro-Kann is more "beginner-friendly", as it allows Black more space and piece activity, without as much complicated maneuvering.

But it depends on player preference.

Some players prefer the closed/counter-attacking positions that the French can offer, as Black's plan of action is clear and relatively defined.

Short answer: you're fine choosing either path. It's just a matter of deciding which kind of game you'd prefer.

Go to chessable.com make an account type in " free courses" scroll until you find the french an caro kann. Get both and drill some lines to see what positions you like better.

Right now French is played more on top level than Caro-Kann.

 I got GM Anish Giri's free french course and there is a LOT of theory. Are there any alternative approaches that avoid all that memorization?

well first off, his full course is 408 variations, which is probably the least amount of theory for openings, my 1c4 course is like 1500 lines an the caro is 876. i just focus on what i see most in my games, and its more important to understand the ideas behind the moves then memorize. read the txt or watch the videos on chessable to understand the moves, then follow spaced repititon. your never going to memorize every line not even GMs do. 

I would also mention to not bother so much with the variations that start at move 15 and up our opponents are likely to deviate from mainline theory alot sooner then that. I start with the mainline and sidelines, everything else i drill is more to just get an idea of what positions i might see in the middlegame an endgames and understanding why im putting my peices on certain squares once they deviate its most likely a dubious move order and i start looking for tactics.

indeed. Pretty much sound advice all-around 👏🏽

I would also add that getting your hands on annotated games by advocates of each defense or specific writings of each will serve greatly as well. I'm a Caro•Kann player btw

Besides that, as with any defense, it is not only knowing the ideas (which take time), improving other skill sets (position play, tactics, rudimentary endgames) you have to hone in on defensive philosophies n mindset. The simplest n most profound advice given by none other than RJF: "Equalize first, then fish for something!" best wishes ✌🏽

You need to change your mentality because all 3 "excuses" are fallacies!

1) Read The Secret Life of Bad Bishops.  This will change your perspective completely!  Only time they suck is in an endgame against a good knight.

2) There is not MORE theory.  There is DIFFERENT theory.  French has 3.Nc3 (which you do not have to know "every" line - some play the Winawer, some play the Classical and Steinitz, some play the McCutchen and Steinitz, some play the Burn and Steinitz, and some play the Rubinstein or Fort Knox), 3.Nd2, 3.e5, 3.exd5, and then sidelines like the KIA, Wing Gambit, 2.b3, or 2.Qe2.  The Caro-Kann has 3.Nc3, the Panov, the Advance, the Exchange, the Fantasy, and then sidelines like the KIA, Hillbilly Attack (2.Bc4?!), 2.c4, etc.

3) In reality, neither is better for beginners.  1...e5 is best for beginners.

 I will try to read the book, thank you. I also now know that it is good in the sense that it defends from the trap that wins black's queen. When you say different theory, do you mean that there are completely different move orders that are in no way similar to the Caro Kann, or do you mean I have to learn different tactics that the french might need? Also, this is the exact reason I made this forum. Someone says the caro is better, and then I am sure the caro is for me, and then someone else says the french has many outstanding tricks and I'm conflicted as to which I should choose  

I guess I should try both and see which one I prefer, like Bizarrebra said. I will let you know which one I choose.

One last question: How should I learn the openings? I started by watching GothamChess's videos, but there are many variations I can choose from, and he doesn't cover all of them. Any suggestions? Thanks

First off, the French and Caro-Kann have very little in common except for the fact that they avoid allowing White the big center (e4 and d4) by forcing the e-pawn to move or be removed rather than prevent d4, like 1...e5 or 1...c5 do (prevent or have the d-pawn traded off that it - e4 and d4 will not sit there - this is why in say, the c3-Sicilian, Black needs to play something like 2...Nf6 or 2...d5 - If White is going to set up a pawn recapture on d4, better attack e4).

In the Caro, Black will do anything, including waste a move (c7-c6 and then c6-c5) just to get the Bishop out.  It is a very slow line of defense, and Black is relying on reaching an endgame with the better pawn structure.

The French is the complete opposite.  It is one of the most aggressive defenses to 1.e4 (second only to the Sicilian), and Black is willing to deal with the bad bishop to start an immediate attack on d4 now that the d4-pawn is blocked and cannot move (a fixed target).

So a lot depends on your playing style.

If I told you that you had to play a Najdorf or Berlin, which would you choose?

If I told you that you had to play the Black side of a King's Indian or the Black side of Lasker's Defense in a QGD, which would you choose?

If I told you that you had to play the White side of the Botvinnik Semi-Slav or the Exchange Slav, which would you choose?

If you chose the first in each case, play the French.

If you chose the second in each case, play the Caro-Kann.

The best way to study?  Get a few books on the subject.  Get out a board and 32 pieces (physical board and pieces, not a computer screen), and study.  Actually try to understand every move.  Do not just memorize.  Do not just focus on Black.  Every move, ask yourself what White or Black is doing.  Even moves not annotated by the author.

People complain about having to reset the board and going thru moves again after analyzing a side variation.  This is good!  The repetition will help.  It is not the same as memorizing.  In this case, you are repeating to reiterate the point of each move, not to simply memorize moves.

@ThatRandomGuy82, a final note: if you want to grab a book, then fine but if you prefer a video, I can't recommend enough GingerGM's videos on the subject. I own both and they're really good. I'll leave you the link here. I'm very biased but especially the one presented by him on the French is just amazing (there are 2 videos, each of them is 5 hours, so be warned).

• The Dynamic Caro-Kann, with IM Alex Astaneh Lopez and WIM Fiona Steil-Antoni
• Killer French, with GM Simon Williams

The french is a more compact opening, and is much more fascinating.

Anish Giri's course is strongly recommendable

Ginger GM has a series on chess.com @BIzarrebra is the killer french a series on Chessable?

Not really. Those are his own DVDs that he sells on his website. I have quite a few of them. I love the quality and length of the content for the price they have. I sound like an affiliate or so when I read myself  (I wish I was!) but his DVDs are just too good.