French Vs Sicilian

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Avatar of Dsmith42

The French Defense is best understood in hypermodern terms, but there are also classical elements to it.  The d4 pawn inevitably becomes weak for white, so it does make some sense to try to avoid presenting that pawn as a target.

The move 2. f3 in @Lord_Ultron 's French game is intended to reinforce e4, but it restricts white's kingside development, which in turn reduces the effectiveness of the kingside attack upon which white will depend in the French Defense system.

The move 1. e4 is a classical opening, and so it must be pressed with classical principles in mind in order to be effective.  Black's reply is hypermodern, the move 2. ..d5 is not meant to occupy the center, but instead to fix d4 in place and force the e-pawn forward (or else exchange it off to blunt white's central pressure), which then allows that big pawn center to be undermined and destroyed from the flanks.

White is attempting to prove that the big pawn center is an advantage due to the extra space if affords (classical).  Black is attempting to prove that the big pawn center is a weakness and a target (hypermodern).

The King's Indian Attack is probably white's best play if he wants to avoid 2. d4, but still 2. ..d5 creates central tension which is unlikely to resolve in white's favor.  Nimzowitsch recommended the Advance Variation for white (1. e4 e6 2. d4 d5 3. e5) as the only play which holds any promise of advantage.  Even there, 3. ..c5 applies pressure, and black can force the c-file open.  White dissuades cxd4 by overprotecting d4, intending to blockade the d5 pawn, to play c3 to blunt black's attack on the c-file, and to eventually play f4 and f5 to undermine black's pawn on e6.

Avatar of Lord_Ultron

ok 

thank you @Dsmith42

Avatar of Dsmith42

The point is that there's no "safe" way to play white against the French Defense.  White must press the attack as ferociously as possible on the kingside, while at the same time minding his central weakness (and it is a weakness).  That is why overprotection of d4 is so important.  If white succeeds in overprotecting d4, he'll have the piece mobility needed to press his kingside attack.  If white does not overprotect, then black will probably win.

Avatar of Infinite_Blitz

The french just makes the light squared bishop completely garbage lol

Avatar of rpkgs
freerobuxman wrote:

The french just makes the light squared bishop completely garbage lol

Not really. It comes out later, and is a great defensive piece. You don't waste a few moves moving it around while white gains space on the king side only for it to be traded. 

Avatar of Dsmith42

Also, in the Rubinstein (which both of my French games have been), the light-square bishop is quite mobile right out of the gate.  It was downright decisive in my first game.

Anyone who is still spouting nonsense about the light square bishop being an issue in the French Defense obviously hasn't been paying attention.  That myth should be dead & buried along with Team Caro-Kann.

Avatar of 2Kd21-0

The Last Boards game: https://www.chess.com/game/daily/312293030

Avatar of Moonwarrior_1
Dsmith42 wrote:

Also, in the Rubinstein (which both of my French games have been), the light-square bishop is quite mobile right out of the gate.  It was downright decisive in my first game.

Anyone who is still spouting nonsense about the light square bishop being an issue in the French Defense obviously hasn't been paying attention.  That myth should be dead & buried along with Team Caro-Kann.

+1 lol

Avatar of Moonwarrior_1
little_guinea_pig wrote:
2Kd21-0 wrote:

7 weeks of vacation remaining... could be a long game xD

LOOOL

Avatar of 2Kd21-0
Moonwarrior_1 wrote:
little_guinea_pig wrote:
2Kd21-0 wrote:

7 weeks of vacation remaining... could be a long game xD

LOOOL

idk what to do

Avatar of Moonwarrior_1

When the 7 weeks are up turn on your vacation?

Avatar of 2Kd21-0
Moonwarrior_1 wrote:

When the 7 weeks are up turn on your vacation?

no

Avatar of chamo2074
little_guinea_pig a écrit :
Dsmith42 wrote:

Also, in the Rubinstein (which both of my French games have been), the light-square bishop is quite mobile right out of the gate.  It was downright decisive in my first game.

Anyone who is still spouting nonsense about the light square bishop being an issue in the French Defense obviously hasn't been paying attention.  That myth should be dead & buried along with Team Caro-Kann.

In some lines of the French (Advance especially), the game often hinges on whether or not Black is able to get his LSB out... that in itself hinges on how good the French player is at putting his plans into effect. That's how you can tell a good opening; the player who plays better wins! What a concept! lol

Well to be honest my opponent is sometimes already dead lost and I didn't even get my bishop out... but of course conversion is harder with such a piece

Avatar of Moonwarrior_1
little_guinea_pig wrote:

https://www.chess.com/game/daily/311525330

@chamo2074 I was hoping you'd play 11...b4 because I was going to play the wild sacrifice 12.d5! Oh well

Oof that would have been intresting

Avatar of chamo2074

This is lots of pressure on me

Avatar of chamo2074

I cursed myself on the french game, and the Sicilian game is sus I understand your like your chances

Avatar of KnightChecked
little_guinea_pig wrote:

I wouldn't say it's more solid - I'd say that Sicilian players, like French Defense players, are much better at actually playing their opening than Caro-Kann players lol

Woah, woah, woah . . .

Lots of CK-bashing in this non-CK thread.

Avatar of KnightChecked

Okay. Forgiven! tongue.png

Avatar of Dsmith42

@KnightChecked - This whole thing started with a bunch of CK players bashing the French Defense.  Team French banded together to teach them a lesson - we won that challenge 10 points to 4 (nine wins, three losses, two draws).  We then invited some Sicilian players to sign up for this challenge, hoping this will be more of a challenge.

The point is we're bashing CK players, not the CK itself.  The CK is not altogether bad (but the French Defense is most assuredly better), but the players who formed Team Caro-Kann had some very wrong notions about the French Defense, which is why Team French won 5 of 7 games with the black pieces, including a Board 1 victory against a National Master.

Avatar of Dsmith42
little_guinea_pig wrote:

In some lines of the French (Advance especially), the game often hinges on whether or not Black is able to get his LSB out... that in itself hinges on how good the French player is at putting his plans into effect. That's how you can tell a good opening; the player who plays better wins! What a concept! lol

This is true, but the fact is that black's LSB can be liberated by force in the French Defense, even in the Advance.  It takes time to do if white is stubborn about it, and it most assuredly takes longest to achieve against the Advance Variation, but the pressure applied by black against d4 gains enough tempo so that white will be unable to prevent it if black plays properly.

As you put it - the player who plays better wins.  The French Defense can't be grasped from the defensive mindset that most Caro-Kann players exhibit.  Every move must either attack or prepare for attack.  A single wasted tempo can mean instant defeat for either player.

I don't expect Team Sicilian to judge their French games so poorly.  So far, you haven't repeated their mistakes.