How do I counter 1.e4 e6

@ThrillerFan. Thanks for the response. I somehow missed your annotations in that post.

Agreed that 9…Nxf3 10.Nxf3 Bb5 is certainly viable for black in response to 9.Nbd2, perhaps even equal, in the Milner-Barry. But I’d say there are practical chances for both sides though especially following piece liquidation for white to control the C-file.

French defense, e4 e6 d4 d5, and after that there are many variations. Study theory. Good luck.

It's BORING! I guess you like symmetrical positions as well. I guess those grandmasters are having so much fun playing a Berlin Endgame or playing against a Petroff Defense. People that play the Exchange are too lazy to learn any of the other good variations. Also, it's not my problem if I have a 63% win rate against it. 

@NikkiLikeChikki I personally think white would be better off with the IQP following 2.c4 and the pawn exchange rather than go into the Orthoschnapp. In my opinion, Black essentially has to know a few variations following 5…Qe7 to respond to the Orthoschnapp. But I give it to you that it’s certainly not boring.

@mikeyphd - life is too short to spend a significant part of it fighting over the d4 square.

@NikkiLikeChikki the IQP can usually advance itself unopposed to d4 (e.g., 1. e4 e6 2. c4 d5 3. cxd5 exd5 4. exd5 Nf6 5. Bb5+ Nbd7 6. Nc3 Be7 7. d4).

But yeah typical classical French play is about control of d4.

I play the French and the exchange doesn't annoy me, but I know it annoys other people. Also, the French isn't boring, it's known for having very sharp lines. 

I really like the alekhine chatard attack and alekhine maroczy gambit. They are fairly aggressive options and the latter provides semi-unique positions where there is not as much theory involved as in the main line Winawer. 

 

3.c5 has been gaining steam as the modern main line and more or less nullifies the Tarrasch. Of course chess must still be played and this is probably what you meant by a "drawish line" but it isn't scary at all. 

 I've always played the French. I used to think the advance variation was a win for black (and I did win most of the time) With higher-rated players it's more difficult but still equal. It's a common line for white among club players because the theory is easy to grasp.

     The exchange holds no terrors for habitual French players, and if white wants to play for a win they face the usual difficulties of creating weaknesses in their own position by trying to create attacking chances in an even position.

     I personally find the Tarrasch most vexing but after a 20+ year hiatus from chess (and taking it less seriously after returning following retirement) my rating plummeted to the 1750-1850 range and as the Tarrasch seems to be chosen primarily by higher-rated players I just use one of the drawish lines there.

     Undoubtedly the most serious try for an advantage is 3.Nc3, but it is the line with the most theory attached. The classical system is easier to understand but the Winawer is a maze of different systems ranging from stubborn dug-in defense to sacrificial all-out counterattack. Probably not the most practical choice for a casual player--witness Fischer's crushing defeat in his pet Winawer line when the much-lower rated Kovacevic pulled out an obscure 30-year old Alatortsev line.

     Your best practical choice is to use something unusual, such as the King's Knight variation, the wing gambit, the King's Indian Attack, etc. You will catch some French players off-guard and most of the rest won't know anymore theory than you do.

     

     Unfortunately, it's up to black whether to play the classical system (3.....Nf6) or not, and the Winawer is played a lot more often.

Offer a draw.

I love using that other web site’s database of games (because science) to see how well openings do amongst the great unwashed rather than master game (wish this site had something similar). Pretty much in all variations of the French, as ratings go up, win% for black goes down (and yes, I checked all the main lines, including ones I’ve never heard of and looked up). The Tarrasch does second best at all rating levels for white, but only by a couple percentage points, with the ridiculous Orthoschnapp being the clear winner, even at 2500 rating. The vaunted Winawer does no better for black than anything else. Remember, this is at all levels starting at 1600 and going to 2500, with step of 2k to 3k.

I just love science

@NikkiLikeChikki

You're welcome to play the Orthoschnapp and bank that your opponent doesn't know how to refute it. If they do however you'll be losing out of the opening. 

@jmpchess12 - I wouldn’t say losing. -0.8 is by no means losing. That’s the same that black faces playing the Dutch.

Besides, it’s all just a probability game. People don’t win any more with “solid” openings than they do with “aggressive” openings if you look at the stats, they just play longer games and have more draws. Even for 2500 rated players, it wins over 50%.

Risk aversion is a legitimate perspective. If you’re afraid that once in a while someone will come up with all the right moves, then don’t play it. I was just speaking from an analytics perspective of maximizing win probability. I know about as much about French theory as the computer nerd in the booth does about throwing a proper curveball. It doesn’t mean his analysis is wrong. I’m not here to evangelize.

I play the French because - in contrast to other openings - I don't have to memorize any lines and yet get a nice position. The exchange isn't something to be worried about. In fact, Black has the choice of playing a boring game, a sharp game with 0-0-0 or even switching to a Scandi. 

you don't have to memorize any lines to get it out of the opening? 3 e5, 3 Nc3 and 3 Nd2 require a lot of memorization for Black to survive, if you think you can just play c5, Nc6 and Qb6 against almost everything then that's not the right approach

I disagree. I haven't memorized anything, just some basic strategical ideas, and still score better with the French than with other openings. Of course, if Black wants to play the best and sharpest lines in the Winawer that's a different story. Or if White is a booked up player who knows all the side lines. But from my experience 90% of the players below 2000 are not, so I usually get a playable middle game position and can take it from there...

 

 

It's a legitimate argument that the Orthoschnapp is tricky to play against and many French players will not know how to refute it. 

The difference between the Orthoschnapp and the Dutch is two-fold. First, the engine is notoriously bad at evaluating King's Indian style positions because it loves space a concept most players can't take advantage of. So a 1 pawn space advantage is not going to have the same practical consequences as a 1 pawn material advantage which any reasonably strong player can exploit. Second, white starts off with an advantage in this game. A 1 pawn deficit early in the game is a bigger deal for white than for black because the opportunity cost. 

@jmpchess12 - The Bishop’s Gambit line of the King’s Gambit is evaluated by the computer at -.9 and is objectively a bad opening. And yet, Judith Polgar beat Vaselin Topolov in 26 moves right before Topolov played for the world championship. Topolov most definitely knew how to”refute” the line, but he still was made to look like an amateur.

If you play the Orthoschnapp regularly and your opponent, who knows the refutation sees it maybe a couple of times a year, you’re not going to be at a big disadvantage. It’s unlikely that all of the correct moves will be remembered perfectly. GM Val Akobian told Eric Rosen that he had seen the gambit maybe twice, and he has mained the French his whole life and plays a lot of online chess.

Again, I’m not trying to evangelize, I’m answering the original question as posted. It wins the most, surprises even experienced French players, and offers a fun wide-open game. 🤷🏼‍♀️