how should we play from black if white doesn't castle in king's Indian defence

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Avatar of ved449
yesterday I was in a tournament and I played king's Indian defence from black but my opponent didn't castle and put a big pawn storm on my king side as my king was castled king side due to which my dark squard bishop didn't participated in the game and I lose that match.so please suggest me what should I play from black if the opponent doesn't castle in king's Indian defence
Avatar of najdorf96

Indeed. Would be nice to see the game, otherwise advice from here on out is just general stuff. As a KID player myself, castling Kside and launching a King side attack is always the norm. Being locked in the center & brewing Queen side play; I haven't been in your position where white didn't castle at all. Maybe it's your technique or you were seeing ghosts-I dunno know, like I said without the game for us to see, it's hard to give an accurate assessment my friend. ✌🏽

Avatar of ThrillerFan

As a Kings Indian player, I can tell you many think only one way in the Kings Indian.  Storm the Kingside.  That only works in the Mar Del Plata.

Some rules to keep in mind:

1) In the 4 pawns attack, ...f5 is almost never good.  Break with ...c5 and attack the queenside and center.

2) In other lines, ...f5 is usually Black's break, but often times, tension should be kept.  ...f4 should only be pushed if White has both castled kingside AND played f3.  You Cannot Allow Bg4 By White!!!

3) If white takes on f5, recapture with the g-pawn.  If he follows up with f4, ...e4 is almost never good unless g4 by White can be completely prevented.

4) There are always exceptions to the rule!  Just remember that the first 3 should rarely be broken, but rarely is not never.  The most rare exception is allowing Bg4.

Avatar of najdorf96

Indeed. Well said by Thriller, but pretty much sums up, like I was saying, Kside play/attack is always the norm. Since most often than not, the center remains blockaded (unfortunately our beast~DSB seems like another pawn for a long time) it seems white staying in the center and "safe" is illusionary: play from both flanks is fluid and ongoing. As noted earlier, without seeing the game or the variation used by white in this instance; generalities & assumptions rule the day. Please reconsider post the notations, diagram or something in the future ✌🏽

Avatar of pfren

To be honest, I have never played the King's Indian defence as Black the last 48 years in regular OTB play.

The reason is simple: Too complex for me to understand properly, and on top of that a crapload of theory you need to learn.

Avatar of ThrillerFan
pfren wrote:

To be honest, I have never played the King's Indian defence as Black the last 48 years in regular OTB play.

The reason is simple: Too complex for me to understand properly, and on top of that a crapload of theory you need to learn.

Yes, there is a lot of theory, but if you actually UNDERSTAND the Kings Indian rather than memorize it or just assume it is a kingside hack job, that setup can be used against anything except 1.e4.  Whether that be 1.c4, 1.Nf3, 1.f4, etc.  Like the 4 pawns attack, some of these kings Indian setups require c5 instead of e5, like 1.f4, and transpose to other openings, like if White plays 1.f4 with a fianchetto, you will usually get a Closed Sicilian.  By truly understanding it and not just memorizing lines and assuming it is all as kingside hack job, you start to understand the differences between white playing d3 vs d4, etc.

So yes, a lot of theory, but it is all you need to know for black except a line against 1.e4.  A less theoretical line like the Benko or Budapest requires additional study to play a whole new line against 1.c4, 1.Nf3, 1.f4, etc.  Of the reasonable moves by white, aside from e4, only b3 or b4 do I not respond KID because I know the 1...e5 theory to both.

Avatar of ThrillerFan
najdorf96 wrote:

Indeed. Well said by Thriller, but pretty much sums up, like I was saying, Kside play/attack is always the norm. Since most often than not, the center remains blockaded (unfortunately our beast~DSB seems like another pawn for a long time) it seems white staying in the center and "safe" is illusionary: play from both flanks is fluid and ongoing. As noted earlier, without seeing the game or the variation used by white in this instance; generalities & assumptions rule the day. Please reconsider post the notations, diagram or something in the future ✌🏽

Another common idea, particularly in the Saemisch, and especially if white castles queenside, is to sacrifice a pawn via ...Nf4.  Even if attacked twice by B and Q or N and B, the pawn sac opens the bishop on g7.

Avatar of ved449

 

Avatar of ved449

 

Avatar of ved449

My match was second one in which I was black an white didn't castle and put a big pawn storm on my kingside

Avatar of ved449

so how should we play in this situation

Avatar of ThrillerFan

7...e6 8.Be2 exd5 and then White can recapture either way, but 9.cxd5 is the most popular.  Only now is 9...Bg4 safest with ...Nbd7 coming to prevent the e5 pawn sac.  You are now officially in a Benoni (A68).

Avatar of ved449

ThrillerFan wrote:

7...e6 8.Be2 exd5 and then White can recapture either way, but 9.cxd5 is the most popular.  Only now is 9...Bg4 safest with ...Nbd7 coming to prevent the e5 pawn sac.  You are now officially in a Benoni (A68).

here we are talking about king's Indian defence

Avatar of ved449

ThrillerFan wrote:

7...e6 8.Be2 exd5 and then White can recapture either way, but 9.cxd5 is the most popular.  Only now is 9...Bg4 safest with ...Nbd7 coming to prevent the e5 pawn sac.  You are now officially in a Benoni (A68).

here we are talking about to prevent kingside pawn storm from white

Avatar of pfren

I you want an easy life as Black against the 4 pawns attack (at the cost of reduced winning chances), then this line is perfect:

 

GM Giannis Nikolaidis showed me this line some 25 years ago- it was suggested to him by one of his trainers in Georgia. I told him this is rubbish, and such a move just cannot be right, but modern computer-aided theory claims that Black gets easily equal chances in that not-so well known line.

Avatar of ved449

pfren wrote:

I you want an easy life as Black against the 4 pawns attack (at the cost of reduced winning chances), then this line is perfect:

 

GM Giannis Nikolaidis showed me this line some 25 years ago- it was suggested to him by one of his trainers in Georgia. I told him this is rubbish, and such a move just cannot be right, but modern computer-aided theory claims that Black gets easily equal chances in that not-so well known line.

but in this black loses a pawn

Avatar of ved449

pfren wrote:

I you want an easy life as Black against the 4 pawns attack (at the cost of reduced winning chances), then this line is perfect:

 

GM Giannis Nikolaidis showed me this line some 25 years ago- it was suggested to him by one of his trainers in Georgia. I told him this is rubbish, and such a move just cannot be right, but modern computer-aided theory claims that Black gets easily equal chances in that not-so well known line.

I don't want to lose a single pawn from black

Avatar of ThrillerFan
ved449 wrote:

 

ThrillerFan wrote:

 

7...e6 8.Be2 exd5 and then White can recapture either way, but 9.cxd5 is the most popular.  Only now is 9...Bg4 safest with ...Nbd7 coming to prevent the e5 pawn sac.  You are now officially in a Benoni (A68).

 

here we are talking about king's Indian defence

 

What is your point?  You asked a question about your second game.  I answered.  The fact that I mentioned the word Benoni does not mean this has nothing to do with the Kings Indian.  With the Saemisch and Four Pawns Attack, where White often attacks kingside, there is overlap with lines of the Benoni and the lines often transpose.  You can't force ideas that do not work.  The whole point of the 4 pawns is a kingside attack.  There is no preventing it.  The answer is to create distractions on the queenside and center.

If you are not happy with the truth because it does not fit within the mold of your faulty plans, why bother posting?

Avatar of OldPatzerMike
ved449 wrote:

 

ThrillerFan wrote:

 

7...e6 8.Be2 exd5 and then White can recapture either way, but 9.cxd5 is the most popular.  Only now is 9...Bg4 safest with ...Nbd7 coming to prevent the e5 pawn sac.  You are now officially in a Benoni (A68).

 

here we are talking about king's Indian defence

 

You asked how to play in the game at post #9, and @ThrillerFan answered. The continuation he gave transposes to the Benoni, which happens quite often in lines of the King's Indian where Black challenges the center with ...c7-c5 instead of ...e7-e5. It is essential to understand this if you are going to play the King's Indian.

Once you are in a Benoni formation, you can be sure that White will castle K side. Black will pressure the e file, and White will usually be hoping to play e4-e5 at some point, so the center will be an unhealthy place for White's K.

Avatar of ThrillerFan
pfren wrote:
ved449 έγραψε:

 

pfren wrote:

 

I you want an easy life as Black against the 4 pawns attack (at the cost of reduced winning chances), then this line is perfect:

 

GM Giannis Nikolaidis showed me this line some 25 years ago- it was suggested to him by one of his trainers in Georgia. I told him this is rubbish, and such a move just cannot be right, but modern computer-aided theory claims that Black gets easily equal chances in that not-so well known line.

 

I don't want to lose a single pawn from black

 

 

This doesn't lose a pawn, genius.

 

You've gotta love it when a lower rated player asks questions, an Expert that plays the Kings Indian and an IM both give ideas, and the fact that his inferior materialistic mind that can't calculate and thinks that the use of the word Benoni is taboo and that there is no preventing White's expansion gives him the idea that he has to spew sh*t back at us like he knows everything!  Why ask then since he clearly already knows all!  I am done on this thread.  I don't help ignorant stuck up idiots that think they know everything.  Good luck trying to get this clown to believe anything you say.  You, me, and most others know that you know a lot more about chess than this clown.  See you in other threads!