Is KG usuable at my level?

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Thomas9400

I love aggresive openings and KG looks perfect for me but i want a openng i can stick with for awhile at what rating will the KG start to become unplayable for me btw i meant to put unusuable as the title

samuelhaupt

wt the 1300 level you shouldn't play it but against lower rated.players you can use it

pfren

You can play it at any level: It's a sound opening.

Thomas9400
pfren wrote:

You can play it at any level: It's a sound opening.

Hmm i have always heard it starts to become unsound compared to many other white openings once you reach a certain rating

pfren
Thomas9400 wrote:

Hmm i have always heard it starts to become unsound compared to many other white openings once you reach a certain rating

I will try to be kind.

That's total bullshit. It IS playable at any level. We don't discuss here about the opening's effectiveness, but rather about its real value. Black has several ways to equalize, and white must be very well prepared to avoid being a pawn down for nothing in a few lines- but if he knows his stuff, he has nothing to fear.

Doggy_Style
Thomas9400 wrote:
pfren wrote:

You can play it at any level: It's a sound opening.

Hmm i have always heard it starts to become unsound compared to many other white openings once you reach a certain rating

Don't worry about that. Even if true, a truth that many World Champions must have been unaware of, you are at least a thousand points and/or ten year's worth of study short of that rating.

Play it, and if you like it, play it again.

Thomas9400
pfren wrote:
Thomas9400 wrote:

Hmm i have always heard it starts to become unsound compared to many other white openings once you reach a certain rating

I will try to be kind.

That's total bullshit. It IS playable at any level. We don't discuss here about the opening's effectiveness, but rather about its real value. Black has several ways to equalize, and white must be very well prepared to avoid being a pawn down for nothing in a few lines- but if he knows his stuff, he has nothing to fear.

Alright thanks for the comments

Thomas9400
Doggy_Style wrote:
Thomas9400 wrote:
pfren wrote:

You can play it at any level: It's a sound opening.

Hmm i have always heard it starts to become unsound compared to many other white openings once you reach a certain rating

Don't worry about that. Even if true, a truth that many World Champions must have been unaware of, you are at least a thousand points and/or ten year's worth of study short of that rating.

Play it, and if you like it, play it again.

Make that 200 years :)

BirdsDaWord

As Pfren stated (and Korchnoi had stated this in a KG book as well), the idea is to achieve favorable structures, even a pawn down.  You need to study endgames if you want to play the KG.  Sure, you might get some good swashbuckling play, but I think the KG might be a good discipline, and a good way to steer away from all the Ruy Lopez rage...

BirdsDaWord
petrosianpupil wrote:

I appreciate that phren is more than a level above me and korchnoi out of site. But the KG does decline in its use the more you go up the ratings and the more opening theory has progressed. I am with nigel short that top players pause when playing the KG not because they have not got a strong line to play but they have such a wide choice. Ok it's got a rarity and surprise value but who at the highest level uses it as their main choice?

Those things shift.  Back when, remember when the Berlin was considered inferior?  I remember having a Fred Reinfeld chess book and he discussed then that the Berlin was an inferior defense to meet the Ruy Lopez with - that is until Kramnik beat Kasparov with it.  Now EVERYONE has gotten on that Berlin train.

Same with the Petroff - it was another attempt to squish the Ruy.

I am not saying that the KG will ever become mainline again, but it could.  Heck, even the Italian Game, for years it was considered a dusty relic - but voila its back.  Times change, opinions change.  

mahdibb

Thomas9400 wrote:

pfren wrote:

You can play it at any level: It's a sound opening.

Hmm i have always heard it starts to become unsound compared to many other white openings once you reach a certain rating

kir

Ben_Dubuque

Agree with most people here who say it is sound. But if black is prepared he can get a good game. I think the highest level it gets used as a main weapon is on that 2000 cusp. Any higher and people know how to counter it effectively and avoid most of the complications and basically equalize. Pfren is right in saying black has numerous methods to equalize.

Ben_Dubuque

Well I guessing you stick to one defense you know well.

TheGreatOogieBoogie
pfren wrote:
Thomas9400 wrote:

Hmm i have always heard it starts to become unsound compared to many other white openings once you reach a certain rating

I will try to be kind.

That's total bullshit. It IS playable at any level. We don't discuss here about the opening's effectiveness, but rather about its real value. Black has several ways to equalize, and white must be very well prepared to avoid being a pawn down for nothing in a few lines- but if he knows his stuff, he has nothing to fear.

But doesn't black force at least equality by defeating the purpose of white's play with 2...d5!  3.exd5,e4! the e4 and f4 pawns will hamstring white's development while the king knight's best square is taken away, the f-file remains blocked, and white can no longer establish his intended pawn center.  Even in lines where he does black generates enough piece pressure against it as compensation.  So 2...d5! has not just objective, but psychological value and it's anyone's game.  

pfren
TheGreatOogieBoogie wrote:

But doesn't black force at least equality by defeating the purpose of white's play with 2...d5!  3.exd5,e4! the e4 and f4 pawns will hamstring white's development while the king knight's best square is taken away, the f-file remains blocked, and white can no longer establish his intended pawn center.  Even in lines where he does black generates enough piece pressure against it as compensation.  So 2...d5! has not just objective, but psychological value and it's anyone's game.  

3...e4 is a mistake, which gives white the advantage. Better are either 3...exf4 or 3...c6.

Flops00

Play what you like! There is no right or false openings.. Btw in kg 3. Nf3 or Bc4?

lolurspammed

As an occasional KG player, 3..Nf6! Is the move that really tests the kings gambit imo. The knight on h5 after an eventual e5 push is untouchable and the pawn on f4 is very bothersome to whites development.

pfren
lolurspammed wrote:

As an occasional KG player, 3..Nf6! Is the move that really tests the kings gambit imo. The knight on h5 after an eventual e5 push is untouchable and the pawn on f4 is very bothersome to whites development.

3...Nf6 is indeed underestimated. I don't believe 4.e5 is the solution, so white may have to try something original like 4.Nc3 d5 (4...Nc6 opens another big can of worms) 5.e5 (5.exd5 is universally recommended, yet white does not equalize) Ne4 (5...Nh5!? should probably be tried if Black wants to play for a win) 6.Qe2! when 6...Nxc3 7.dxc3 leads to equality, while 6...Nc5 7.d4 Ne6 8.Bd2! is a reasonable gambit which needs practical tests. Stockfish thinks chances are balanced, but we all know engines are not to be trusted in early game stages.

PhantomCapablanca

The Kings Gambit is awesome. And unless you're playing some super GM, he's not going to refute it. Sure, a computer might give black a +0.5 advantage or whatever, but all that really matters is that you enjoy/find it easy to play out of the positions it gives you. 

Ben_Dubuque
pfren wrote:
lolurspammed wrote:

As an occasional KG player, 3..Nf6! Is the move that really tests the kings gambit imo. The knight on h5 after an eventual e5 push is untouchable and the pawn on f4 is very bothersome to whites development.

3...Nf6 is indeed underestimated. I don't believe 4.e5 is the solution, so white may have to try something original like 4.Nc3 d5 (4...Nc6 opens another big can of worms) 5.e5 (5.exd5 is universally recommended, yet white does not equalize) Ne4 (5...Nh5!? should probably be tried if Black wants to play for a win) 6.Qe2! when 6...Nxc3 7.dxc3 leads to equality, while 6...Nc5 7.d4 Ne6 8.Bd2! is a reasonable gambit which needs practical tests. Stockfish thinks chances are balanced, but we all know engines are not to be trusted in early game stages.

 

So very true. the Nf6 line is one of the harder lines to play because it isn't what white is expecting. I would of course love to learn more about it but I have better ways to improve my play (endgames, strategy, tactics)