Good answer
Is that true that Polish/Sokolsky/Orangutan opening, only playable >2200 ?
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Actually, 1. g4 could very well put White in a very difficult position.
Consider this:
The e-pawn cannot move past e3, since e2-e4 creates a few awful weaknesses.
White can potentially push f2-f4 after O-O-O, but it's somewhat weakening.
The h4-square is already weak, and can be a thorn in White's side even if it is on the edge of the board.
So White's only sound ways of taking the center are with d4 and c4 or with f2-f4. The problem is that White has to castle queenside before using the f2-f4 method, on which Black will take a big bite of the center, and the d4-c4 method leaves White with no good place to put his King, along with the fact that in many cases, Black can forcibly keep White from advancing d2-d4.
I believe the -0.7. White's position gets ugly in more than one way.
Thank you everyone one so much, some interesting discussion here from different mature people and no spammers, thank you all again I'm reading it all and building some idea in my head
🤔
jengaias wrote:
... The size of the book proves nothing.
For many things in chess, is it a matter of making the best judgment that one can on the basis of available evidence?
jengaias wrote:
The book is as big as the publisher wants and no matter what the opening or the line is , if the publisher wants a 500 pages book , he is going to have it.
Would a publisher be likely to want a 500 page book if a competitor could satisfy readers with something shorter and cheaper?
jengaias wrote:
The book "The Ruy Lopez explained" by Gary Lane covers ALL Ruy Lopez and it is 150 pages.
About how many pages are there on 1 e4 e5 2 Nf3 Nc6 3 Bb5 a6 4 Ba4 Nf6 5 0-0 Be7 6 Re1 b5 7 Bb3 d6 8 c3 0-0 9 h3 ?
"... [The Ruy Lopez Explained by Gary Lane] is a repertoire book for White ..." - FM Carsten Hansen (2006)
Is such a book likely to provide much of an indication of the magnitude of the work for a player who wants to be prepared as Black for Ruy Lopez possibilities other than what Lane recommended for White?
jengaias wrote:
You only need to pick a defense and 10 pages are enough.
Would there be good sales for a small pamphlet that claimed to satisfy the needs of a player wanting to be able to take the Black side and satisfactorily meet the Ruy Lopez?
jengaias wrote:
How is that possible?
A complex opening is not necessarily a difficult opening.
Ever encountered the expression, "Spanish torture"?
jengaias wrote:
Even with white pieces playing Ruy Lopez is easy.
Zaitsev is 270 pages, Breyer and Marshal are 500 , Berlin is 2.000 pages and Open Ruy Lopez another 5.000 pages and all of these are out of the window if white plays d3 on his 4th, 5th or 6th move.
And how many pages remain?10? 20?That's it , that's all you need to know to play Ruy Lopez(according to the books you mentioned).
"... The first 60 pages [of The Ruy Lopez Move by Move by Neil McDonald] are sensibly spent giving the reader ‘A plan to get you started with the Ruy Lopez’. This involves playing d2-d3 at a very early stage, rather than following the main lines (c2-c3 followed by d2-d4). This ensures that readers can start playing the Ruy Lopez with the minimum amount of preparation. The positions may not be as potent or testing as the main lines ..." - Sean Marsh
Does a White "minimum ... preparation" possibility provide much of an indication of the magnitude of the work for a player who wants to be prepared as Black for Ruy Lopez possibilities other than what results if White plays d2-d3 at a very early stage?
jengaias wrote:
... you are here to kill time and make others lose time to. ...
That is false.
jengaias wrote:
... Who is Sean Marsh
He has been posting reviews for over a decade. On his site, he wrote, "I have been a professional chess coach since 1988".
jengaias wrote:
and why should I care what he says?
I don't think it matters whether you care or not, but others may notice the degree to which you substantively dispute any of the statements in the Sean Marsh quote. Here it is again:
"... The first 60 pages [of The Ruy Lopez Move by Move by Neil McDonald] are sensibly spent giving the reader ‘A plan to get you started with the Ruy Lopez’. This involves playing d2-d3 at a very early stage, rather than following the main lines (c2-c3 followed by d2-d4). This ensures that readers can start playing the Ruy Lopez with the minimum amount of preparation. The positions may not be as potent or testing as the main lines ..."
jengaias wrote:
Is it possible that he might be wrong ...
Of course, but that possibility exists for others, too.
jengaias wrote:
... In any case , McDonald's 60 pages are actually very few because he uses a lot of text trying to explain even the simplest thing.These 60 pages are probably 3 ,roughly 4 hours of study , not more.
It sounds as though you might agree that GM McDonald was presenting a small amount of opening preparation for the d2-d3 approach to the Ruy Lopez. But, again, does such a White approach provide much of an indication of the magnitude of the work for a player who wants to be prepared as Black for the Ruy Lopez in general?
jengaias wrote:
And any number of pages of a book , even 2.000 , is "minimum amount of preparation".
How does "probably 3 ,roughly 4 hours of study , not more" compare with the amount of White study appropriate for 1 e4 e5 2 Nf3 Nc6 3 Bb5 a6 4 Ba4 Nf6 5 0-0 Be7 6 Re1 b5 7 Bb3 d6 8 c3 0-0 9 h3 ?
jengaias wrote:
The main preparation of an opening is understanding the endgames and the middlegames it produces.That means thousand of hours studying and analysing the games of almost all the great players that have used the opening and A LOT OF PRACTICE.
So any opening book , ANY OPENING BOOK , no matter how many pages it has , can't be considered anything else except "minimum amount of preparation".You would know that if at any point in your life you studied chess seriously(and you obviously never did).
I do not see how the amount of preparation for 1 e4 e5 2 Nf3 Nc6 3 Bb5 a6 4 Ba4 Nf6 5 0-0 Be7 6 Re1 b5 7 Bb3 d6 8 c3 0-0 9 h3 could be a minimum if a lot less preparation is involved for a Ruy Lopez with d2-d3 at a very early stage.
jengaias wrote:
Did I answer in every stupid and worthless quote you could find or there are more?
I don't see any identification by you of the number of pages on 1 e4 e5 2 Nf3 Nc6 3 Bb5 a6 4 Ba4 Nf6 5 0-0 Be7 6 Re1 b5 7 Bb3 d6 8 c3 0-0 9 h3 in "the repertoire book for White", The Ruy Lopez Explained by Gary Lane. Do you still maintain that "The book 'The Ruy Lopez explained' by Gary Lane covers ALL Ruy Lopez"?
OMG 🔫 kids are everywhere, what are you talking about!? Read the topic , you are off !!! Stop spamming!
🔞 Only!
The November 2016 issue of Chess lists the top twenty openings compiled from a list of 2221 September games where both players were rated over 2400 Elo. One can not take position on this list too seriously because it is greatly influenced by how the openings are grouped. For example, all the Retis are grouped together, while English is separated into 1 ... c5, 1 ... e5, etc. Nevertheless, for what it is worth, some of the list entries report: 119 Retis, 81 Caro Kanns, 72 1 ... c5 Englishes, 69 Najdorf Sicilians, 64 2 Nf3 d6 sideline Sicilians, 58 1 ... e5 Englishes, 52 Taimanov Sicilians, 49 2 Nf3 sideline Sicilians, 49 Kan Sicilians, 45 Berlin Ruy Lopezes, and 43 Closed Defense Ruy Lopezes. Don't see any entries for any species of Orangutan. I suppose it is possible that the Orangutan did not make it into the top 20 because it was split into 1 ... e5 Orangutan, 1 ... d5 Orangutan, etc.