Is the Monkey's Bum (And the Monkey's Bum Deferred) Decent?

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kamuimaru

I am very interested in the Monkey's Bum and the Monkey's Bum Deferred. Are they good enough to use? Which bum is better?

kamuimaru

If you guys think I'm lying, take a look at the Monkey's Bum:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modern_Defense,_Monkey's_Bum

InfiniteFlash

Why does no one try to play chess anymore? Why must there be some wierd looking opening to try always? Focus on chess sir.

VULPES_VULPES

WHY??

WHY THE NAME???

WHY???

chesshole
pfren wrote:

White's score with it isn't quite inspiring (3 draws and seven losses out of ten games). Use at your own risk.

you are an international master and you are judging by a sample size of 10 the merits of a particular opening.  you should already know that percentage wins are not very good indicators of how strong an opening is...and you are judging this opening based on 10 games Undecided

ItsEoin
chesshole wrote:
pfren wrote:

White's score with it isn't quite inspiring (3 draws and seven losses out of ten games). Use at your own risk.

you are an international master and you are judging by a sample size of 10 the merits of a particular opening.  you should already know that percentage wins are not very good indicators of how strong an opening is...and you are judging this opening based on 10 games 

... of which seven were lost. 

kamuimaru
VULPES_VULPES wrote:

WHY??

WHY THE NAME???

WHY???

At first, the name might seem laughable, but there is a deep poetic meaning to it that is hard to grasp. Just look at the name closely and you may find the deep meaning hidden inside...

LOLNOWAI. It doesn't.

chesshole
ItsEoin wrote:
chesshole wrote:
pfren wrote:

White's score with it isn't quite inspiring (3 draws and seven losses out of ten games). Use at your own risk.

you are an international master and you are judging by a sample size of 10 the merits of a particular opening.  you should already know that percentage wins are not very good indicators of how strong an opening is...and you are judging this opening based on 10 games 

... of which seven were lost. 

do you understand my post?  the sample size was 10.  7 losing games can easily be statistical variance

ItsEoin
chesshole wrote:
ItsEoin wrote:
chesshole wrote:
pfren wrote:

White's score with it isn't quite inspiring (3 draws and seven losses out of ten games). Use at your own risk.

you are an international master and you are judging by a sample size of 10 the merits of a particular opening.  you should already know that percentage wins are not very good indicators of how strong an opening is...and you are judging this opening based on 10 games 

... of which seven were lost. 

do you understand my post?  the sample size was 10.  7 losing games can easily be statistical variance

Of course I understand your post. Perhaps you don't realize just how damning losing 7 out of 10 (and drawing the other 3) is for White. I have a database with 45 games in this line. White scores 6 wins, 19 losses and 20 draws. Granted, they're not all grandmaster games, but they are all masters. In this case, it's not statistical variance.

chesshole
ItsEoin wrote:
chesshole wrote:
ItsEoin wrote:
chesshole wrote:
pfren wrote:

White's score with it isn't quite inspiring (3 draws and seven losses out of ten games). Use at your own risk.

you are an international master and you are judging by a sample size of 10 the merits of a particular opening.  you should already know that percentage wins are not very good indicators of how strong an opening is...and you are judging this opening based on 10 games 

... of which seven were lost. 

do you understand my post?  the sample size was 10.  7 losing games can easily be statistical variance

Of course I understand your post. Perhaps you don't realize just how damning losing 7 out of 10 (and drawing the other 3) is for White. I have a database with 45 games in this line. White scores 6 wins, 19 losses and 20 draws. Granted, they're not all grandmaster games, but they are all masters. In this case, it's not statistical variance.

nope, can still easily be variance.  using databases isn't real analysis, it is only meta-analysis.  There are so many variables that aren't controlled when you are using databases to evaluate openings.  Here is a counter-example to your point

 http://www.chessgames.com/perl/explorer?node=1397113&move=2&moves=e4.g5&nodes=21720.1397113

This shows the games where 1.e4 ...g5 was played.  This is a sample size of 68 (more than the 45 games in your example) and black wins or draws most of the time.  In fact it has the highest win percentage of any black move response to 1.e4 besides the games with a sample size of less than 5 (on the chessgames.com archive, at least).  

Any decent chess player would know that ...g5 is not the best response to 1.e4, but relying on databases may convince you otherwise.

DrSpudnik

So this monkeybutt is some kind of White gimmick where he hopes Black walks into a mate, then what?

RRM888
VULPES_VULPES wrote:

WHY??

WHY THE NAME???

WHY???

It's in the Wikipedia article:

"When [IM Nigel Povah] showed the first few moves to Ken Coates, a friend at Leeds, Coates declared, "If that works then I'm a monkey's bum!" The name stuck.

 

The Monkey's Bum Deferred scores reasonably well and it was used by Polgar in a famous victory against Shirov. John Nunn has also played it a number of times.

Metastable

One: Blimey, it's hot in here, Bruce.
Two: Hot enough to boil a monkey's bum!
One: That's a strange expression, Bruce.
Two: Well Bruce, I heard the Prime Minister use it. "It's hot enough to boil a monkey's bum in here, your Majesty," he said and she smiled quietly to herself.
One: She's a good Shiela, Bruce, and not at all stuck up.

xxvalakixx

In a match between 2129 player and 2511 player the opening doesn't really matter as long as that is normal. Black didn't win because of the opening, but because he is much stronger. So this game proves nothing.
But I think it isn't a good setup for white. 

Likhit1

d4?What'd the point of giving up that pawn?Gaining a tempo by Ne2,lol.

chesshole

you use an example of a player beating a player 400 points rated below him.  Thanks for proving my point about game databases.

chesshole

you wrote a glib comment based on a 10 game database, just admit it lol

Scottrf

There must be better ways of giving up a centre pawn.

chesshole
pfren wrote:
chesshole wrote:

you use an example of a player beating a player 400 points rated below him.  Thanks for proving my point about game databases.

Actually, it's not just one game, but five. I expected you could somehow figure this out, but alas... no such luck.

Good one, i hope you are proud of that one.  I would expect an international master to be a bit more professional than looking up a ten game database and advising an aspiring chess player about an opening using only that pathetic piece of meta-analysis without analyzing the position himself nor using computer analysis.  But alas...no such luck.  

It is almost as if you were compelled to give an opinion about something you know nothing about.  It was a glib comment, pure and simple.  You are wrong about that point and your ego will not admit you are wrong because you are an international master and I am but a lowly unranked player.  I look forward to see you foaming at the mouth voraciously defending your position in the most illogical way possible.  Feel free to point out any grammatical errors you find or boast about using a 5 game sample instead of 1.  That'll show me Undecided

CapAnson

Look he's giving you his IM-level advice on the opening.. take it or not.  I'm only 1900 and it pretty much looks like nonsense to me too.  If you want to change that, then come up with some novelty and score some nice wins or something.