Is the Sicilian really chess?

First let me say that it is sound and that it works.

My observation is that everything is so shop worn about it that I don't see how there could be any fun in it. It is more like a religion than a chess opening. Players who use it tend not to use anything else. There are a million variations and Sicilian players know them all 30 moves deep. That is all that they do, after all. I know. I know. That means that you have to study 30 moves deep. Still, is it chess if you don't make your first unscripted move until the game is half over?

Sure, other openings have a dense catalogue of theory. But none of them seem so rigid and predictable. Whenever someone responds to e4 with c5, I just go ahead and resign. He didn't do anything wrong so he deserves to win. It's just that I play chess to play. I prefer to move on in the hope that the next guy wants to play too.

For the Sicilian fans out there: What is in it for you?

Listen Rick, I think you have misunderstood chess in general. It is your choice how to play against or every opening and how to use Theory. Specific in the Sicilian if you don't like the heavy theoretical open games as playing White pieces there are several other alternatives, the so called Anti-Sicilians which offers plenty of opportunities for creative game. Yes you need to know ten-twelve moves theory for some of them but in general , you need to understand positional concepts and motifs. One of the good things in chess is to understand when and how you can play out of the main lines.

Don't get obsessed from the myth of any kind of opening, just dive in and play. The Sicilian is one more opening choice with pros and cons, nothing to be scared off.

Sicilian is a reliable defence that permits solidity and aggressivity at the same time.Maybe one of his few bad elements is that ofteb a centrak square is weak and black rarely manages to push e5 and d5.

The first rule of Sicilian Defence is: you do not talk about Sicilian Defence. The second rule of Sicilian Defence is: you do not talk about Sicilian Defence! Third rule of Sicilian Defence: mop out whites quickly and with no mercy to have a time for yet another Sicilian Defence game.

With d3, c4 you will annoy many Sicilians.

Btw, awesome nick

Uhh... I don't think the Botvinnik system intimidates me.

A one move win?

Winning is almost everything to me in chess. I had a 45/45 game yesterday against someone who just let their time run out after the 6th move. It didn't bother me. I won, I was happy. Drawing doesn't interest me. Ok, I'll admit it's slightly better than a loss.

I've been playing the Sicilian against e4, but I'm pretty sick of it, because most e4 players over 1300 in rating seem to know the 30 moves you're talking about. I know the 5-7 first moves of a few Sicilian mainlines (I haven't played the dragon yet), but that's it. I'm very tempted to start replying with something more unknown, that will bring more e4 players out of their damn preparations/experience. But I can't just surrender the centre either. Do I have to memorize a hatful of 20 move lines? It's generally even more difficult to face d4 imho though...

This is the thing for me. Systems up the butt! I'm not exactly intimidated by the Sicilian any more than I am intimidated by infomercials on late night tv. Like the Sicilian, infomercials are the same every time and, if you have seen enough of them, they are irritating. When I do actually play against it, I win my share against players of similar skill. Thing is though, it is always because I have a better memory than my opponent and not because I out played him.

i call her "Mistress Sicilian " she is everything i want in an opening , but if i wrong her boy do i get whipped

i first met her as she was seducing another , a friend i played very regularly , he respected her dance and i never got a chance as white ,

i tried 1 d4 to no avail i met f5 and if that dont resemble a sicilian to d4 what does lol

so i guess you know the adage that bought my mistress another suitor

" if you cant beat em join em "

im off to watch her dance

 Stockfish doesn't like your b4 move Cherub_Enjel, says -0.38 with cxb4 (the natural move) and -0.24 with d5...

Still the Sicilian. The Wing Gambit. Another danged system! I used to play it all the time to keep the game open, then I ran into a few guys who could still stop up the pot.

*Facepalm* :/ (I hope you're being sarcastic or something.. I'll assume you are  - and btw, Stockfish also thinks the Sicilian 1...c5 is bad, almost as bad for black as the wing gambit is for white )

And yeah, it's still the Sicilian, and it's a line I would never play. You can actually "trick" black into transposing into some sort of french structure in some cases though, by going for c3 and maybe f4 ideas, although black typically gets easy equality. 

No, it's just me saying I'm pretty smart, I can check with Stockfish low depth, but I'm not that smart

Edit: Stockfish thinks c5 is an ok reply to e4, says +0.41 for white, while e6 (french) is +0.27, and the "mainline" e5 is +0.37. I've heard c5 gives more winning chances, while e5 gives better drawing chances against e4. Since I'm pretty result oriented, I've considered trying to make white go into the Berlin with queens off and giving up castling rights for black, giving black very good drawing chances. But I realize not all white players are that result oriented and would like to play an open game with lots of firepower on board... But that's probably where I would like to go as black, if I respond with e5 to an e4.

consider also b6 in the wing gambit this then means a treade at c5 by white still offers a c5 pawn to black to keep d4 eyed

1 e4 c5  2 b4 b6 , 3 bxc5 bxc5

C3 Sicilian is alright.

so 1300 sicilian players "supposedly" have moves up to 30 memorized?

wtf?  do you guys play on a different planet or something.  i totally have played 1300 players on all kinds  of TC from the long game uscf, to 1300 chess.com blitz.

that number is NOT good enough (well maybe English grading system excluded LOL) to have hardly any of the sicilian figured out, at all.

the only time I would expect a "1300" to play theory is in Daily chess where they can literally look it up.  and STILL, they would not understand the idea well enough to stand a half chance against someone that does.

the problem for both sides of the sicilian; is that that this opening isnt' straitforward chess- espacially for black.  so while you are perfectly right about infomercials at night... I'm calling BS on your complaint about the massive theory of sicilian.

like all other openings, once the dust clears and the pieces are developed, you must try not to die.  and at 1300 (at any TC)!  good luck with that!!

PS.  I'm not even to 1300 blitz so I mean no hypocricy about chess.  true fact.  1300 sucks.  I am including myself in that category.

I don't play blitz, only rapid 45 and 30. But when I analyze my games where I've lost against some 1280 and 1325 players, they play a lot of the computers best moves against the Sicilian. 30 moves was an exaggeration. But like this game a day or two ago, it was hard to shake his advantage, and I did a bad move with 16. Rb8 etc. and it was as good as over from there. Anyway, he was well prepared against the Sicilian, but I didn't play well. After 16. Rb8 and his 17. Qa7 (which I overlooked when moving 16. Rb8) i more or less gave up though, and played really poorly. I was aiming for a minority pawn attack, but it fell apart completely. I thought he did a pretty poor and passive move with 16. g3, but no, it was the about the best possible move +0.74 vs. the best move Qd3 +0.76. God, that Knight on 14. Nd4 turned out to be a nuisance.

when that happens.  I almost always find that I have made silly mistakes and its fairly easy for even a human to find the best moves.

after all, that is why we all train on tactics. 

You do realize how engine evaluations work right?

No matter how impossible or tough the resulting positions it calculates are for humans to play, if there's a series of 5 or so moves that give a side an advantage, and every other move loses, then the computer will still evaluate that position as better for that side. 

This is heavily underestimated. The wing gambit is actually quite challenging to the sicilian for players who've never seen it before, or only know 3 moves of theory (like me) : take the pawn, then play d5.