King's Indian Attack: Why does no one use it but me?

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jtd428

   I often use this opening, but I don't ever see anyone use it.  I think it is great because of the openings for attack that you create without weakening your defenses.  

DrawMaster

The King's Indian Attack is a very reasonable opening and was employed by none other than one Bobby Fischer in several games.

A couple of good points include the following: a) allows one to get several moves into the game without being skunked by some sharp tactics, b) allows system playing to a certain extent, and c) allows one to learn the 1.e4 e5 lines while not having to play mainlines against the semi-open defences. On the other hand, Fischer himself would not play the KIA against just anything, preferring it against specific lines by Black.

One would think: Oh, if the KID is so good for Black, then the KIA ought to be really great with White. Turns out that most reverse Black openings do not confer any significant advantage to White because he/she has not profoundly useful purpose for the extra tempo. Still, the KIA is surely sound enough to play at nearly every level of chess, so keep using it and scoring your wins.

jtd428
DrawMaster wrote:

The King's Indian Attack is a very reasonable opening and was employed by none other than one Bobby Fischer in several games.

A couple of good points include the following: a) allows one to get several moves into the game without being skunked by some sharp tactics, b) allows system playing to a certain extent, and c) allows one to learn the 1.e4 e5 lines while not having to play mainlines against the semi-open defences. On the other hand, Fischer himself would not play the KIA against just anything, preferring it against specific lines by Black.

One would think: Oh, if the KID is so good for Black, then the KIA ought to be really great with White. Turns out that most reverse Black openings do not confer any significant advantage to White because he/she has not profoundly useful purpose for the extra tempo. Still, the KIA is surely sound enough to play at nearly every level of chess, so keep using it and scoring your wins.


Obviously some things can stop it. It just seems weird that no one uses it , at least against me. 

Elubas

Since it doesn't put much pressure on black from the start, it allows black many options and he is able to create his own semi active setup like white has. With moves like d4 and e4, black's center is under pressure so he has to directly react a bit more to white's plans from the start, with less flexibility in what he does.

So the answer to your question: I think it's for both the above reason and the fact that many people think setups like this are automatically bad (or perhaps just harmless) because they're not mainstream (I don't play it for the former, I prefer to have a bigger grip on the position from the start if I'm white. The lower your rating the less it matters but to me an opening advantage is nice as it allows you to pay more attention to your own ideas and often forces the opponent to do the opposite).

Elubas

I thought the whole point of playing the KIA was to avoid theory.

jtd428
BorgQueen wrote:

I know the KIA has less theory to worry about than most openings, but you still need to know your theory, for every opening.  Moving aimlessly is exceedingly dangerous!


Yes, you always need to have an eye to your opponent, but this makes it a little easier to have an attack, as well as a potential defense, ready to put pressure on your opponent.

orangehonda

I've started using it as an option vs both the Sicilian and French because basically I just want to get out of the opening, the phase where I feel I'm weakest.  I don't mind basically handing black equality in some lines because at least at the sub-master level that has nothing to do with winning games Smile

electricpawn
DrawMaster wrote:

The King's Indian Attack is a very reasonable opening and was employed by none other than one Bobby Fischer in several games.

A couple of good points include the following: a) allows one to get several moves into the game without being skunked by some sharp tactics, b) allows system playing to a certain extent, and c) allows one to learn the 1.e4 e5 lines while not having to play mainlines against the semi-open defences. On the other hand, Fischer himself would not play the KIA against just anything, preferring it against specific lines by Black.

One would think: Oh, if the KID is so good for Black, then the KIA ought to be really great with White. Turns out that most reverse Black openings do not confer any significant advantage to White because he/she has not profoundly useful purpose for the extra tempo. Still, the KIA is surely sound enough to play at nearly every level of chess, so keep using it and scoring your wins.


 Lasker once asked why if the Sicilian was good for black more people didn't play the Sicilian with an extra tempo, the English, as white. I suspect its because, as you said, the extra tempo doesn't reward white with a meaningful benefit. Also, the English can transpose into many different openings.

The KIA is interesting, and the sharper lines involve some interesting sacrafices. 

ChessNetwork

I guess it's down to just you and Radjabov who play it?! :)

It's still played, just not all to frequently as a black defense at super GM level.

Baddbishop

I tried it for a while as my main weapon with White, in tournament games, but I found myself in many static positions without much chance win. Also, it's not very good for your chess to limit yourself to one setup all the time.

jtd428

   I use several openings, this one is my favorite, but there are times where it does allow your opponent to gain an advantage through control of the middle of the board, at which times you have to play defense the rest of the way, and often suffer losses in material. It certainly isn't a perfect opening.

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namankings

gary kasparov played it

chesster3145

*facepalm*

DrSpudnik

He waited six years to make the most common and dumbest statement ever repeated on this site. Yes, by now everyone has played everything. But that has nothing to do with anything.

kindaspongey

"... For players with very limited experience, I recommend using openings in which the play can be clarified at an early stage, often with a degree of simplification. To accomplish this safely will take a little study, because you will have to get used to playing wiith open lines for both sides' pieces, but you can't eliminate risk entirely in the opening anyway. ... teachers all over the world suggest that inexperienced players begin with 1 e4. ... You will undoubtedly see the reply 1 ... e5 most often when playing at or near a beginner's level, ... After 2 Nf3, 2 ... Nc6 will occur in the bulk of your games. ... I recommend taking up the classical and instructive move 3 Bc4 at an early stage. Then, against 3 ... Bc5, it's thematic to try to establish the ideal centre by 4 c3 and 5 d4; after that, things can get complicated enough that you need to take a look at some theory and learn the basics; ... Of course, you can also play 1 d4 ... A solid and more-or-less universal set-up is 2 Nf3 and 3 Bf4, followed in most cases by 4 e3, 5 Be2 and 6 0-0. I'd rather see my students fight their way through open positions instead; however, if you're not getting out of the opening alive after 1 e4, this method of playing 1 d4 deserves consideration. ... a commonly suggested 'easy' repertoire for White with 1 Nf3 and the King's indian Attack ... doesn't lead to an open game or one with a clear plan for White. Furthermore, it encourages mechanical play. Similarly, teachers sometimes recommend the Colle System ..., which can also be played too automatically, and usually doesn't lead to an open position. For true beginners, the King's Indian Attack and Colle System have the benefit of offering a safe position that nearly guarantees passage to some kind of playable middlegame; they may be a reasonable alternative if other openings are too intimidating. But having gained even a small amount of experience, you really should switch to more open and less automatic play." - IM John Watson in a section of his 2010 book, Mastering the Chess Openings, Volume 4

For more on KIA, one can try The King's Indian Attack by GM Neil McDonald.

chesster3145

Definitely not a bad line. It basically leads into some kind of Fianchetto Grunfeld.

kindaspongey

Perhaps it would be helpful to look in Grandmaster Repertoire 2: 1.d4, Vol. 2 by Boris Avrukh (2010)

https://web.archive.org/web/20140626210017/http://www.chesscafe.com/text/hansen132.pdf

although you might want to wait because Avrukh has been working on a revision of the series.

Merovwig

@Kindaspongey: Do you have a file on your computer to copy this exact same message when needed? :D

AbhiTheGr8

I play KID