x
Chess - Play & Learn

Chess.com

FREE - In Google Play

FREE - in Win Phone Store

VIEW

King's Indian Defense, Mar del Plata variation Bayonet attack, 10...h6 playable?

  • #1

    Hello, I played a game in a tournament where I faced Bayonet attack on my King's Indian. I played 10...h6, and after the game, my oponent told me it was a novelty and is unsound. I would like to ask you all if it is actually unsound or playable. 

     

    Here is the game, for those who are interested

    I don't know why, but I always face the Bayonet when I play King's Indian defense and if I play 10...f5, my opponent usually go 11.Ng5, and the knight ends up on e6 which is really annoying for me. This is why I thought of 10...h6. 

  • #2

    i think 10...h6 is very interesting... idea ...f5 and Nhf6 is a good plan.  If 11.Nd2 Nf4 and it is an interesting game.  The N on f4 may make the idea of ...f5 a bit more awkward though, but an alternative plan of playing ...c6 and a5 may be acceptable.  If ...f5 anyway, with a knight on f4, there is the idea of ...fe and Nf5

  • #3

    I think it is somewhat unsound, as the pawn is not doing much there. 

    Also, it is going to move to h5 eventually, so I see it as a waste of a move.

    Maybe 13. f3 instead of Bf3?

    This would allow Nc4, cxd6, c6, Bd2 (if Black doesn't play f4, than Bf2 is good), and even though I am a KID player, I don't like Black's position much.

    However, you played well, so kudos for the rest of the game. 

  • #4

    Well, to be 'unsound' in this position you've got to be talking about a move like ..g5 or ..Nxd5.  It's quite a reasonable move and has been played many times.

    Arguments for this move include that Ng5 is no longer possible, and ..h6 supports ..g5.

    Arguments against this move: 1) One normally thinks of the Mar del Plata as a race variation and ..h6 is a slow move.  Normally Black can play ..h5 in one move.  2) Ng5-e6 is double-edged and not necessarily something Black needs to prevent. 3) 11.Nd2 more or less forces ..Nf4 and a N on f4 prevents ..f5-f4.

    Here's a top level encounter, where White's strategy was to not move any of the kingside pawns and used the e4 square well:



  • #5

    Yes in my database the "unsound novelty" has been played 193 times, and by several FIDE 2700+

  • #6

    Thank you for all the inputs

    I thought for a while on deciding between 12...Nf4 or 12...Nhf6 but I was scared of White going Bf1 and g3, which would kick my knight away to an inferior square. 

    I've never really looked into playing a5 as black, but since it is a race game, I don't think it helps Black's attack. 

  • #7

    Funny how often the people who declare that some move or other is unsound end up losing to it. Smile

    Also not sure how you could know that a novelty was unsound...

  • #8

    Prefer 10...a5 to 10...h6. By waiting with f5, gives white a few issues keeping option Nf3-g5-e6 and keeping his queenside flexible. The f5 break is still there for later, and a5 slows down queenside attack. Its just a preference though don't think can prove one move better than another at this stage of game.

  • #9

    Does it matter if its unsound? If people can't refute it over the board the word unsound is pretty meaningless.

  • #10

    I like the move 10. ... h6.  My main repertoire choice has been 10. ... f5, but I like this waiting move.  

  • #11
    Oraoradeki wrote:

    Hello, I played a game in a tournament where I faced Bayonet attack on my King's Indian. I played 10...h6, and after the game, my oponent told me it was a novelty and is unsound. I would like to ask you all if it is actually unsound or playable. 

     

    Here is the game, for those who are interested

     

    I don't know why, but I always face the Bayonet when I play King's Indian defense and if I play 10...f5, my opponent usually go 11.Ng5, and the knight ends up on e6 which is really annoying for me. This is why I thought of 10...h6. 

    h6 isn't a novelty. White plays it and stop Ng5, knight then to e6. After Bxe6 dxe6, it is very difficult for black to get the pawn on e6


    . By the time white can improve his position.

  • #12

    Yes, well there 11...f4 is a classic bad move. It's a standard plan when centre is completely blocked to start kingside pawn storm, but in situation after ne6 etc, the centre is open , and playing f4 leaves black with no counterplay.

  • #13
  • #14

    Are you kidding me, Hector? You necro'd an 8 month old thread so that you could advertise one of your groups??

  • #15

    Yes, I did Green.  Why is that so bad?  This site gets bombarded with hundreds of ads for non-related chess stuff all the time.  Why would I hold back from offering others the opportunity to join a group and improve/learn through Vote Chess, forums, and other chess related activities in a particular opening? You have been in my groups before.  I take pride in organizing them well and I work very hard for them to function properly.  If you don't want to join them that's fine, but don't deny others the opportunity to choose either.

  • #16

    I play the Bayonet with White all the time, and in my recent encounters 10...h6 does not do Black justice in his attacking opportunities.  It is a rather wasted move when the pawn will advance to h5 later anyway.  As for the game displayed above, 13.Bf3? was just asking for trouble on the kingside when a simple 13.f3 would have solidified the White king's surroundings more, or 13.a4 would continue to the queenside assault without worrying about e4.  Rather, 10...f5 gives Black more fight against the Bayonet by activating his kingside attack with a higher ammunition.

    Naka played a similar 13...h6? in a highly-flawed and overrated game with Vishy in the 2011 London Chess Classic using the same opening, and he ended up on the lucky side of the straw when Vishy lost focus of his queenside pawn storm (at a time when he had a nearly +5 advantage!) and clumsily allowed Naka to inflitrate into his position and set up a mating net around the White king.

  • #17


    1.d4 Nf6 2.c4 g6 3.Nc3 Bg7 4.e4 d6 5.Nf3 O-O 6.Be2 e5 7.O-O Nc6 8.d5 Ne7 9.b4 Nh5 10.Re1 h6 11.Nd2 Nf4 12.Bf1 f5 13.c5 fxe4 14.Ndxe4 Nf5 15.g3 Nh5 16.Bg2 Nf6 17.a4 Nxe4 18.Nxe4 Nd4 19.Be3 Nf5 20.Rc1 Rf7 21.Qd3 Qf8 22.Rc2 Nd4 23.Bxd4 exd4 24.h3 Bf5 25.Rce2 g5 26.Qb5 Re7 27.g4 Bh7 28.cxd6 cxd6 29.Nd2 a6 30.Qc4 Rxe2 31.Qxe2 d3 32.Qe3 Bc3 33.Rd1 Bxd2 34.Qxd2 Re8 35.Bf1 Qf3 36.Bg2 Qf7 37.Re1 Rxe1+ 38.Qxe1 Qf4 39.Qe8+ Kg7 40.Qe7+ Kh8 41.Bf1 d2 42.Be2 Bg8 43.Bd1 b6 44.Qd8 b5 45.axb5 axb5 46.Qc8 Kg7 47.Qc3+ Qe5 48.Qxe5+ dxe5 49.Kf1 Bxd5 50.Ke2 Kf6 51.Kxd2 e4 52.Be2 Bc6 53.Ke3 Ke5 54.Bf1 Bd7 55.Be2 Bc6 56.Bf1 Bd7 57.Be2 Bc6 1/2-1/2

  • #18
    It's risky but I don't see an immediate refutation of 16. g4 winning a knight?
  • #19

    Nope, 16.g4 Nd4 17.gxh5 Nf3+ 18.Kh1/g2 and now 18...Qh4 and Black has some serious initiative, maybe even outright compensation for the piece.

  • #20

    This variation just seems very unintuitive to me. There's a pawn race going on, and we're trying to play f5. Why take the time to play h6? We don't know if maybe later we'll want to use the h-pawn via h5-h4 and then h6 will be a loss of time. And this Nd2-forcing-Nf4 stuff is also a problem IMO. I want to be able to move my f-pawn right down the board, because it's a King's Indian and that's what you do.

     

    h6-g5 doesn't make sense to me anyway because white hasn't played h3 or any other move that would allow g5-g4 to make contact. And if we do want to play h6-g5 we can do it later. I feel the priority should be f5, which, apart from creating an attack, also strikes at white's pawn structure. 

     

    These are all strategic considerations. Objectively, who knows? I'd certainly be looking for funky sidelines with either color in an opening like this, but probably not this one because I don't think it's anything that will throw white off, and I'm not even sure why we're doing it to begin with.

Online Now