London System vs "A busy person’s opening system"

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Vadzimka

Mastering chess will take years. There are a lot of people who must work hard to earn $$$ for livings, they can not contribute a lot of time to learn each and every opening. 

I'd like to master chess. But, I also would like to survive in my games till middlegame at least and probably survive till endgame while I am studying chess in my free time (that I don't have so much though) -> it will allow me not to lose interest to chess at all.

I've found recommendation about London System and it has a lot of positive feedbacks. But few days ago I found  A Busy Person's Opening System  it being promoted as a good alternative to London System.

I don't have so much time o deeply learn both of them.

May be experienced chess players would recommend me which one should I choose?

PerpetuallyPinned

You're not going to "master chess" with either or both. A book or dvd doesn't provide you with everything needed to "master" anything.

If you want to survive until the endgame, you must have studied up on endings. If that's the case, middlegame strategy/planning might help you get there. It might help you finish some games before an endgame is ever reached.

In order to get to a middlegame, you need to be able to survive the opening. Studying an opening system alone will only get you so far.

But you can try one (get experienced reviews as you're asking for) and see if you like it and if it helps with your time limits. Just remember, there's no quick read/watch out there.

jtmccann15
The London was the first opening I ever truly studied and learned. I think it’s a great start. I won a lot of games with it and jumped rating points quite a bit after only a few hours study and then honing the opening with a little practice. At your level you will pull off some awesome mates with it....it’s a lot of fun. When defenders get better at stopping mate the London is still pretty solid positionaly. Just watch Simon Williams videos he keeps it simple and covers most of what you need to know.
ppandachess

Those system have something in common: they are systems happy.png

The thing about systems is that you can play them almost regardless of what your opponent plays. Other example of a system is the King's Indian attack (Nf3-g3-Bg2-d3) by White.

I think that the problem with playing a system all the time is that your play will become automatic, which in the long run can hurt. It is comfortable to play with general ideas but this might neglect calculation, so blunders might occur more often.

So I would not stick to one, but try to at least play both of them if you want to avoid other openings at any cost.

pwnsrppl2

The London System is a good tool, but you’ll have to keep a couple of things in mind. First, it is incredibly popular right now, especially at club level, so most of your opponents will have seen it many times before and worked out something to play against it. Second, you’ll have to have something to play against the Kings Indian Defense. You can play various London System- style openings against it, but those tend to be a lot less convincing than the lines against d5. The Jobava is one possibility. See the GingerGM videos on YouTube.

king5minblitz119147

i think the busy person's repertoire advocates the philidor pawn structure for both colors, d6, c6 e5, or d3 c3 e4. it requires a lot of subtle maneuvering which will be of little use if you are not tactically strong enough. the london is far more suitable but you can only use it for white, and trying to apply the same concept for your black repertoire by going slav caro kann is not bad but will carry a lot of theoretical workload, as both caro and slav are main openings. overall i prefer the london/caro/slav pawn structure over the philidor structure, but it is mostly because the play is more straightforward for the former.

bong711
Vadzimka wrote:

Mastering chess will take years. There are a lot of people who must work hard to earn $$$ for livings, they can not contribute a lot of time to learn each and every opening. 

I'd like to master chess. But, I also would like to survive in my games till middlegame at least and probably survive till endgame while I am studying chess in my free time (that I don't have so much though) -> it will allow me not to lose interest to chess at all.

I've found recommendation about London System and it has a lot of positive feedbacks. But few days ago I found  A Busy Person's Opening System  it being promoted as a good alternative to London System.

I don't have so much time o deeply learn both of them.

May be experienced chess players would recommend me which one should I choose?

It's a matter of priority. People prefer to spend time after work watching TV. With little TV, there are plenty of time to study Chess.

Vadzimka
pwnsrppl2 wrote:

it is incredibly popular right now, so most of your opponents will have seen it many times before and worked out something to play against it. 

really very good point!  may be I should choose another opening to study, not so much popular

pwnsrppl2 wrote:

you’ll have to have something to play against the Kings Indian Defense

hmmm

ok, I will try to watch videos on Youtube about Kings Indian Defense or study some course from grandmasters if you would recommend good one

 

 

 

Vadzimka
king5minblitz119147 wrote:

i think the busy person's repertoire advocates the philidor pawn structure for both colors, d6, c6 e5, or d3 c3 e4. it requires a lot of subtle maneuvering which will be of little use if you are not tactically strong enough. 

I am trying to study CT-ART 4.0 (Chess Tactics 1200-2400 ELO)  on daily basis. I hope this course is pretty good enough to master tactics or you could recommend something else?

Vadzimka
bong711 wrote:

It's a matter of priority. People prefer to spend time after work watching TV. With little TV, there are plenty of time to study Chess.

well, I am here. Every day I play chess, so, it means I am not TV-watcher happy.png  Last time I watched TV... two years ago happy.png But, well, sometimes I watch twitch happy.png 

Vadzimka

I've found this comment for one of the chess videos.

what do you think, experienced players?

Play 1.d4 with White and go to the Blackmar-Diemer Gambit, which cannot be avoided by Black.
When playing with black, we always play 1. ... e6 with the first move.
And then there are only 2 options for us, which depend on White: either we play the French defense 2. .. d5,
or the Dutch defense by 2. ... f5.
Thus, we nullify most of our opponent's opening preparation,
where we are ready for anything.
And these are strong options that cannot be refuted
such as all sorts of exotic openings that are not applied at a high level.
There was a time when I published this system in the chess public in the form of some kind of entertaining book.
And there were a lot of positive feedbacks from both newbies and coaches (judging by the profile pictures).
So it's tested on myself and people. Who is fond of the game use. Or come up with it yourself.
I got tired of playing so white after about a year and had to come up with something else,
based on the principle of "playing in your own field". In general, maybe someone helped someone who has such a problem.
Although I certainly did not discover America.

king5minblitz119147

ct art is good enough. you should finish everything there and be able to spot the answer in a few seconds. that means that you need to go through everything at least 3 times. The point is not just to solve but to make them part of your subconscious. it is repetitive but it does work. at least for me it did.

elibus2020

I tried the London System in online games. I got bored because it's always the same. Now I play e4 exclusively and have much fun.

ThrillerFan
ppandachess wrote:

Those system have something in common: they are systems

The thing about systems is that you can play them almost regardless of what your opponent plays. Other example of a system is the King's Indian attack (Nf3-g3-Bg2-d3) by White.

I think that the problem with playing a system all the time is that your play will become automatic, which in the long run can hurt. It is comfortable to play with general ideas but this might neglect calculation, so blunders might occur more often.

So I would not stick to one, but try to at least play both of them if you want to avoid other openings at any cost.

 

The other problem with "system" openings is that the vast majority play them for all the wrong reasons and get the wrong idea that they can be played against anything when that is not at all true.  There are cases where black is better (forget equal) with correct play.

 

Then all I ever hear is "But but but Magnus Carlson played the London".  Again, did not say the London System is unplayable.  I said it is played by amateurs for all the wrong reasons and cannot be played as a Catch-all system and you must know and understand when it is bad.

 

Except the London, I have played all of these as White, often in conjunction with one another:

 

London System:  BAD - Against the Modern Defense.  FINE - Otherwise

 

Torre Attack:  BEST - Against 1...Nf6 and 2...e6 or 1...Nf6 and 2...g6.  OK - Against 1...Nf6 and 2...d6.  BAD - Otherwise, yes, including 1.d4 Nf6 2.Nf3 d5 3.Bg5?! Ne4! =/+

 

Colle System: GOOD - Against lines with e6 played AND the Bishop remains behind the pawn chain.  BAD - Otherwise!  For example - 1.d4 d5 2.Nf3 Nf6 (here 3.Bg5 is bad, white has the choice of 3.Bf4 or 3.e3) 3.e3 and now if 3...e6, the Colle (4.Bd3 and 5.c3 or 5.b3) is a perfectly fine system, but if Black plays an Anti-Colle with 3...Bf5 or 3...Bg4, then White's only choice is 4.c4 which will 95% of the time transpose to the Slow Slav.

 

Veresov: Really only works against 1...d5/2...Nf6 or 1...Nf6/2...d5.  Against the Modern (1...g6) or Benoni (1...c5), there is no Veresov,and against other defenses, white usually has nothing better than to transpose to a king pawn opening, like 1.d4 d5 2.Nc3 c6 3.e4 is a Caro-Kann, or 1.d4 Nf6 2.Nc3 d5 3.Bg5 e6 there is nothing better than 4.e4 and you are in a French.  1.d4 Nf6 2.Nc3 d6, nothing is good other than 3.e4, which is a Pirc.  Etc.

 

For a good year or so maybe a year and a half ago, I was playing the Torre against Nf6/g6 and Nf6/e6, Colle Zukertort, Slow Slav lines, 2.e4 against 1...e6, 1...d6, 1...g6, 1...c6, or 1...b6, and 2.Bg5 against the Dutch, but notice how it is a combination of systems that work, which is not the same as trying to play one catch-all system against everything.

 

Even the London System does not work against everything (cough - 1...g6!, even London System guru Cyrus Lakdawala will tell you that! London does not work against the Modern Defense!)

jtmccann15
pwnsrppl2 wrote:

The London System is a good tool, but you’ll have to keep a couple of things in mind. First, it is incredibly popular right now, especially at club level, so most of your opponents will have seen it many times before and worked out something to play against it. Second, you’ll have to have something to play against the Kings Indian Defense. You can play various London System- style openings against it, but those tend to be a lot less convincing than the lines against d5. The Jobava is one possibility. See the GingerGM videos on YouTube.

This is very true.  However at the OP’s rating level I believe most people wouldn’t know the system or be good enough to stop a crafty mate. It would probably bump him up a few hundred rating points in a couple months

RussBell

An Idiot-Proof Chess Opening Repertoire by Graham Burgess...

(click on the book's cover graphic on the web page to open the 'Look Inside' feature - it's the Kindle edition).

Uhohspaghettio1

Why does Burgess have both the QGA and the Slav? I could understand if he wanted a serious opening and a wild one, like the QGD and the Benko, the QGA and Slav seem an odd pair. 

RussBell
Uhohspaghettio1 wrote:

Why does Burgess have both the QGA and the Slav? I could understand if he wanted a serious opening and a wild one, like the QGD and the Benko, the QGA and Slav seem an odd pair. 

Read the introduction to the book using the 'Look Inside' feature.

And IM John Donaldson's comment here...

http://www.gambitbooks.com/books/An_Idiot-Proof_Chess_Opening_Repertoire.html

CrockPotLion

London system again? If people are too lazy to learn a proper opening... maybe play another sport.

RussBell

GM Simon Williams introduces the Jobava London System (aka, 'Jobava Attack') with his Chessable courses on the opening, one of which is a free introductory ('short & sweet') course...

The Jobava London System is a variant of the London System, where White plays an early Bf4 and Nc3.  GM Simon Williams (aka 'GingerGM') enthusiastically recommends it (he has created a course on Chessable on the opening).  The opening is touted as being relatively simple to learn, as it is relatively new with currently much less theory than most mainstream openings and thus attractive for those who either don't have much time for study of openings and/or who wish to avoid having to learn lots of theory....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DoHt2wSb-TE

https://www.chessable.com/short-sweet-the-jobava-london-system/course/29129/

https://www.chessable.com/the-jobava-london-system/course/28333/

https://easychesstips.com/the-jobava-london-whites-best-chess-opening-for-beginners

https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=jobava+london

https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=jobava+attack+chess

Introduction to the Jobava Attack - 'Jim's Chess Channel'...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5joSsNpJ9qw

Magnus Carlsen vs Jeffery Xiong - 8 June 2020 (rapid) - Jobava London System...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8YY6J4i63PI

https://www.chessgames.com/perl/chessgame?gid=1997016