London System

Okay, so Nc3 is a good option, and that leads to another point about the move order.

A better move order is 1. d4 d5 2. Bf4, because otherwise white is forced to protect d4 with c3 instead of e3, and therefore can't play Nc3.

Example of Nc3 from the book "Win With The London System". The authors say white has more than enough compensation for the b2 pawn. In any case, Nc3 seems to be a strong option.

After 1. d4 d5 2. Bf4 Nf6 3. e3 c5, both Nc3 and dxc5 seem to be strong options:

No! if you are playing the London System the King Knight usually develops last most times.

It can be mistake to have it out to early becuase of the c5 pawn break.

Sometimes they play Bf5 to try and develop with tempo but it doesn't work in that position. Also alternative move they try is to delay Qb6 1 move.

I also have made a move order of my own when I play. It has the move 3.Nf3. Yet it can be very tricky. I do not recommend it if you are new to this line only becuase you have to play very accurately.

If black takes that pawn with his queen. Black will find himself caught in the positional coils of the London System.

I will also like to mention that some players gave recommendations of some sister/brother lines of the London System yet they didn't mention all of them . So I will mention some more.

All of these lines revolve around the Dark Bishop for the Dark side is strong with these lines.

- Colle

Places Dark Bishop inside of the pawn chain (usually they play e3 and leave the bishop inside.)

- London system

Places Dark Bishop outside of the pawn chain on f4

- Torre Attack

Places Dark Bishop outside of the pawn chain on g5. Usually it goes their just to do an annoying pin on the knight. Somes they take the knight sometimes they don't it remains flexible their.

- Trompowsky Attack

Places Dark Bishop outside of the pawn chain on g5. Usually the main intention is to take the knight and ruin blacks pawn structure. Its key feature of the Trompowsky.

- Stonewall Attack

Hybrid of the Colle line. Usually the black bishop is still inside.

I am going to leave you my forum. Which is my collection of games with the London System. I usually add commentary to them. So might help you learn some idea's.

http://www.chess.com/forum/view/chess-openings/london-system11

I will also give you a link to a youtube video by National Master Renee Philips. I thought he was great in that video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hLzfSf0-0TE

That video also shows a nice line against the KID. Which I play both lines. KID and London system and I thought his nice video.

Why 3. Nf3 and 4. e3 instead of 3. e3 and 4. Nf3?

Well that is an excellent question.

The main london system move would be 3.e3

However, in many cases after you play 3.e3. You might not be able to play 4.Nf3 right after depending on what black does. Usually against moves like c5 from black. White has to delay the knight to f3 in some cases.

For example:

Notice that example I showed becuase you didn't move your knight to f3 the move Nd2 saves your bacon. Now thats an important move. You have to remember the moves that save your bacon.

Now if you do play Nf3 you do have another saving move. So lets show that one as well.

So in the Nf3 continuation what do you notice? In the e3 line you only needed to rememeber 1 move to save your bacon in the Nf3 line you have to rememeber 2 moves to save your bacon. Thats double the work.

So that is why I am not a fan of having the moves

1.d4 d5 2.Bf4 Nf6 3.e3 c5 4.Nf3

Causes you to have double the work.

So now we get to the meat and potatoes of the position.

Notice my continuation.

1.d4 d5 2.Bf4 Nf6 3.Nf3

Notice how the e3 pawn has not moved yet.

Now if my opponent plays

3...c5 and I respond with 4.e3  than we have just transposed right back into the same position as I showed before didn't we?

Now what if I don't want to play that? Becuase it forces me to remember 2 moves to save my bacon twice.

So now you see the brillance of my plan. I have different intentions. I'm shaking it up. I have a home preparation line. Which shows the value of doing research and coming up with lines you may like and your opponents may not even know about. It will sure give your opponent something to think about.

So what do I play after the following moves:

1.d4 d5 2.Bf4 Nf6 3.Nf3 c5

You might wonder?

Well I have plenty of options.

I can play g3, dxc5, Nc3, Nbd2, c3

An I must admit I like this little g3 move.I think its very conservative.

I also like the dxc5 move. I even had times where I try to give black a hard time by holding on to the pawn a little bit. However, I didn't hold on to it forever though. You don't want to hold on to it forever lol becuase it can be bad. Yet you can be stubborn some.

I think these are very flexible options. Which just goes to show you can spice up lines if you wanted to. I have had people say its boring, positional, and slow.

An I'm like well yeah if you make it that way it is. An shame on you for doing that. It can be exciting and fun if you want it to be. Their is plenty of options here.

I'm not a Title player or anything so obviously I can't say if you play this line you will just punish everyone. However, It will spice things up.

An you might even surpise them. They might think you are going for a London or something than Bam you switch up on them and they might get shocked or confused. Happens all the time in chess.

rtr1129    Nice information about this opening!

also X Player!

Ok, my question...maybe because I just woke up...but why isn't this variation okay (if you got suckered into the bad move order somehow):

Not ideal, but isn't White temporarily solid?

In the system with e3/Nd2 black is not going to humor you by playing qb6. He will just develop with either Bf5 if he wants an unbalanced position or will play cxd4 and get a caro cann exchange setup that is equal.

@birdbrain: The main problem is that black has a easy to implement and hard to stop plan. He will finish development, retreat his queen and start pushing the queenside with b5 / b4 etc. White is forced on the defence directly from the start

Have a look at this game for a perfect example: http://www.chessgames.com/perl/chessgame?gid=1559483

@moonnie - you answered with exactly what I presumed.  It has the makings of a sucky game for White!  However, White isn't instantly lost, but his long term prospects aren't looking so great.  Thanks for the post!

Thank you all for the input! :)

One thing has not clarified for me yet: What is the long term/middlegame plan in the London System? I find it hard to come up with anything constructive as White, too...

Thank you all for your helpful comments; I appreciate that!

I will look into some basics of the London and see if I can use it successfully in my own games. :)

If you play London, I would recommend to play Bf4 before Nf3. Then you confuse your opponent even more.

I was trying to answer your post like 11 hours ago lol but my pc totally went down. However, I am back now HA HA.

In the London System white usually develops their bishop outside of the pawn chain. The draw back of this is it leaves a weak pawn behind the b2 pawn. In chess they tell people to try and attack the weakness. So in a sense that is what black is trying to do here.

So I will explain why the below diagram is bad.

When black plays this c5 pawn break white has to be very careful in how he responds.

The mistakes or potiental mistakes I should say for white is he confused his moves. If white wants to have a pawn on c3 and e3 than he needs to delay his knight on f3(He needs to save the tempo/move to save his bacon.) An instead play something like Nd2 becuase it helps defend his weak b2 pawn from Qb6 moves.

If white instead wants his knight on f3 and pawn on e3 than he can't really play c3 any more he would either have to take on c5 with his d4 pawn or he would have to play Nc3. To defend his weak b2 pawn from the Qb6 move

So in this example whites mistake was confusing the 2 idea's. Which is a mistake that commonly happens to beginner. I fell for this problem before as well. Eventually with more practice and getting burned a few times you learn lol and fix the mistakes.

An the problem is it is not a huge mistake. The c3 is like a minor mistake not earth shattering yet the domino effect it has makes black position end up slightly better. Its like an inaccuracy a small dubious move. That screws up everything. An beginners even some intermidate players can fall victim to such a mistake.

So why is the position bad. Well well after white plays 5.c3  black response with 5...Qb6

5...Qb6  develops the queen and attacks the weakness(b2 pawn). How does white defend?

Well if white continues with

6.Qb3  defending the pawn.

The problem is both queens are starring at each other and neither side wants to be the one to capture the opponents queen. WHY? The reason why is becuase if 1 side captures the other side they will recapture with the A pawn opening their Rook file getting an active piece for the trade.

Neither side wants their opponent to get more active pieces. So they don't want to trade.

So what has happen so far. Black developed 1 piece with tempo on a weak pawn. Simple threat. White defended

Well now black puts more pressure. Black plays 6...c4 WHY?

6...c4 is a mult-purpose move.

1- He is trying to hit the white queen to provoke the white queen to take his queen. Black would love. Absolutely love white if he made that queen trade.

2- It gains space on the queen side and that is where black wants to play his pawns point to the queen side so going with blacks theme of playing on the queen side and expanding queen side it is good for black to play that c4 move.

So now white is left with a choice does he take the queens and help black develop his rook or does he retreat. In many cases white decides its not worth it to let black develop so easy. So they treat.

Now rememeber this is 1 threat only. Black is just hitting the weak b2 pawn so white has to still try and guard that pawn. So white plays the below move.

7.Qc2

Most white players would think its over now. The storm as passed. The problem is white is in the eye of the storm its coming back. An it comes back with a fury becuase black now has a tactic shot.

7...Bf5!!

What on earth thats a free bishop or is it? Well if white takes the bishop than blacks queen takes the b2 pawn and the rook on a1 is lost.

So it is a posion bishop.

So if the white queen can not take the bishop and still has to defend the b2 pawn. Where does that leave white?

Well white has to than play 8.Qc1.

Now just look at the visiual picture below.

Notice the red highlighted square that is the only problem. The only weakness that is causing all of this mess. One little b2 pawn.

Notice the yellow highlighted squares those are the 3 things black developed with all whites queen moves.

Notice the green highlights and arrows. Look how the white queen has just danced all over the board.

Qb3-Qc2-Qc1

This isn't dancing with the stars. WTF? This is chess you can't do those random queen moves. An let your opponent develop/gain tempos off you like that.

3 queen moves and all this time black is developing and gaining space which is all part of his master plan of queen side play.

The queen start off on d1 for crying out loud. If white wanted to go to c1 why didn't he just play 6.Qc1

An now your thinking Oh My Gosh what if the white queen played 6.Qc1! Would that help whites position?

What if white saw all of this in his mind. An played the move 6.Qc1 to stop all of blacks development activity. Surely this can not be bad.

Well it is bad. Its bad for a completely different reason though. You see I told you that c3 move is a positionally bad move. Before the queen moves were bad becuase it helped black develop with tempo. Now it is bad becuase whites queen/center is going to come under heavy fire.

The Pawn tension has not been "released" yet.

So now look at the below picture.

Do you see the problem?

Notice the Green arrows the black rook is going to go to c8 facing the white queen. An the c3 pawn is going to become pinned to the queen. Which means the d4 pawn is coming under attack. As well as the original weakness the b2 pawn.

Do you see how attacking 1 weakness causes huge headaches in a position. An usually thats how it goes down.

Notice the Yellow arrows and highlights The d4 pawn has 2 pieces + 1 pawn attacking it. An the Light square bishop is going to go to f5 stopping white from playing moves like Rb1 to help defend the b2 pawn as well. It is all just tumbling down.

These 2 lines I showed are bad becuase they give black simply plans but they are not losing right now thats the problem. White ends up slightly worse and you will have to try and fight yourself back from that slightly worse position. Which usually you don't want to have to do with the white pieces.

So the moves you do matter. Don't give yourself a headache lol play better moves. The below diagram are a few better moves.

Why not?

e3 prepares the development of the f1 Bishop, c3 doesn't help in development.

Lol

So that is the London System optimised. Anybody want to discuss the London system in practice ?

Is it a proper compromise to let's say only play the London system if black does not respond with 1...d5 so I do not have to go into the annoying c5 line? And if black responds with 1...d5 then 2.c4? I find myself comfortable in playing QGA, QGD and Slav.