Make The Grob Opening Strong?

Is that sarcasm I'm sensing?

lol

4... d5 5. exd5 Bxg4 is good for Black.

As a long time fan and player of political incorrect chess openings, I can tell you the Lettuce is right, not only is 1...d5 stronger it is played more often than not.

Even if you do get 1...e5 Bloodgood/Grob's suggestion of 2.d3 or Basman's 2.c4 seem betters try than immediately blocking off the Grob Bishop on g2

Make The Grob great again.

I like to play the delayed Grob, which is superior.

Hah. I wasn't saying that The Grob beats everything. I was just saying that I found a way to make it (semi-) respectable lol

Yeah, I don't think putting the Queen on the long diagonal and taking a square away from the Knight is where you want to be going strategically, and chesster's suggestion seems very good for Black since he gets a big lead in development.

The Grob is one of the worst openings there is.Both d5 and e5 lead to a better game for black.For example Moiseenko and Miles played e5 and both won.

Personally i actually prefer e5 because it is even easier to remeber how to get an advantage trhen with d5 where white has some small tricks.

Btw in your diagram black is much better. He has a clear lead in development and the white kingside looks like a swiss cheese. Howerver it is clearly not best play for both sides because after 4. g5 instead of the silly Qf3 white can actually kick the knight back to g8 wining 2 tempi and actually making g4 seem semi usefull. A move like 3.  .. Nc6 seems more logical

but g5 attacks knight followed by b3. You immediately place black on defensive and can keep it the rest of the game if you know what you're doing haha.

Sad thing for white is that after Qf3 it is blacks turn and he will probably play d5. Then g5 is kind of useless because it does not kick back the knight anymore.

The Grob is awful. How about 1.g4 g5 2.f4. ??? That's the Coca Cola gambit... HORRIBLE! 😬

Positional lost?...at your level maybe but what a lot of people don't seem to want to grasp, it is not just the opening that wins a game of chess the person behind the peices has a lot to do with it as well...

I suppose some people will dismiss such a comment as flippant and I guess that is up to them but in this modern era with computers and very strong chess playing software (and ready access to titled players), that we as players are at risk of over complicating our own perceptions of the game.

I am not saying that the Grob is any sort of wonder opening and that Pfren ascertain is at all wrong. It is just a matter of perception. Snake oil openings like the Grob work at certain levels and at other levels, they don't. To say that generally 1.g4 d5 2.Bg2 Bxg4 3.c4 c6 4.Qb3 Nf6 is a positional loss for White is a sweeping generalization and depending on the skill level that is being used and in what circumsatnce, maynot be altogether correct either.

What happens after 4...d5 -+? 

Ah. I forgot about that option. 

Good lord...

Positionnally lost doesnt mean its lost...

If u can compensate it with tactitcal means, maybe.

For example, i always consider this Caro Kann positionnaly lost : 1.e4 c6 2.d4 d5 3.Nc3 dxe4 4.Nxe4 Nf6 5.Nxf6 exf6 (gxf6 probably better), but winning is a long way...

But on the grob and pfren's variation (which is highly popular since many Grob players wants to play this c4-Qb3 stuff), the facts are here, it is not compensated. 3 games to illustrate :

The later game is given by J.Watson, i suppose this is just analysis when u see players's name.

And don't tell me (i read it so often...) that it is playable at "your" level.

No, pfren stated why he thought it was positionnally lost, and unless u are masochist, or maybe humanist, who would like to play this with white?

I could add there are several variations to refute this.

For example :

Fun to be lost?

Yeah, your choice...

White has to play h3 to protect g4, thats what Basman used to play.

The Grob is among the worst openings White can play, if not THE worst.