It goes like that:
Maroczy bind or switching to another variation of the Sicilian
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Well, well... Most of this doesn't look very tempting for black...
Apparently, as i've seen, the Nh6 - f5 idea was used by spassky but it basically refuted nowadays.
Black can try a Hedgehog-type setup, but i'm not sure how to play those, and i won't feel to comfortable in it i guess.
Preparing Rac8 and d6, followed with Nc5. The game doesn't look particularily good for black but it's hard to see where white is going, i don't see many plans for him either. Houdini thinks black is tinily better.
Edit : white must be careful the c4 doesn't go under fire, with the pieces reorganized like Rc8 Qc7 Ba6.
However, White can protect the c3 Knight via Rc1.
With a sharp but equal position. I quite like this idea.
I think i'll give the Ng4 Nxd4 Ne6 idea a shot, it seems very interesting, even though i'll still try out delaying cxd5, see how that line goes (remember, either 4.dxc5 Qa5+ c3 Qxc5 Na3, or 4.c4 where black has the additional possibility of Qb6).
Interesting this.
In IM pfren's diagram, it seems the extra moves 6...d6 and 7.Nc3 have been inserted. On the surface it doesn't seem like this makes any difference and White should just play 7.f3 upon seeing 6...Nh6. But:
Maybe this isn't the best line, but a well prepared player may be able to get something out of it!
Ne6 lines look worth knowing as well and are probably more good. Certainly Black can hope to contest a good game from there.
EDIT: sorry mixed my lines, the Veresov game was after 7...0-0, which seems playable. 7...f5 is also alright but looks a bit more sketchy, maybe after 8.Nxc6 dxc6 is best. Apologies to those who saw my unedited post which was a little confused!
8.Nxc6 in the diagram does not feel right. What about the direct 8.Qd2 Nxd4 9.Bxd4 Bxd4 10.Qxd4 d6 11.Nc3 f5 12.Bd3, with a typical edge?
I would be more concerned for something greedy like 7.f3 Qb6!? which looks very risky, but might be playable (engines like Black, but this is something that I would expect).
echecs06, I'm not familiar with the name, but (after googling) I guess it's the same thing as the Gurgenidze variation ? If so, yeah, it's one of the main lines. Also, as the thread is going, i'm starting to find solutions against the bind, so that might be alright after all ^^. Et merci !
pfren, The Qb6 line looks interesting. Not really sure it's riskless though, probably wouldn't play. Or the whole f5 system for that matter. The other variations I had considered before starting the thread were :
The position is equal and black should play for h5. Still quite hard to play though.
The other line was by using a slightly different move order at the start, and has been tried by leading GMs quite recently :
With a slight edge for white. Quite unpleasant to face as black anyway.
I still like the Ne6 line a little better, even if white defends the c3 knight via Rc1.
echecs06 wrote:
Ploucroux, Yaz Seirawan and John Donaldson taught me the accelerated dragon. They told me that the Maroczy bind is the price to pay to play the sicilian. If you want to avoid the bind they are good anti-Maroczy Bellon variations against it. Bonne chance.
There is also a very good book by Hans Kmoch, "Pawn Power In Chess", that details the characterisitic pawn structure Maroczy Bind/Boleslavsky Wall. In the book on pages 142-146 GM Kmoch gives insightful details on how to handle this pawn structure from both sides. On page 143 he points out that, in 1959, according to the Russian analyst Symagin, the Maroczy has a dawback. The drawback is now well known (the move c4 delays the development of White's pieces, of which Black can take advantage by getting in ...f5--the lever(break) for which there is otherwise very little chance. He clarifies further that Symagin's system requires ...g6 and ...Nh6.
You do know Kmoch died like 40 years ago ? Theory has changed since then. Especially with the Nh6/f5 idea. It seems kinda busted now.
How is it busted? Mind to show me?
Not busted per se, but as we discussed earlier in the topic it's not the best try for black.
It's not technically "busted" white still has a good edge :
1. e4 c5 2. Nf3 g6 3. d4 cxd4 4. Nxd4 Nc6 5. c4 Bg7 6. Be3 Nh6 7. Be2 d6 8. Nc3 O-O 9. O-O f5 10. exf5 Bxd4 11. Bxh6 Rxf5 12. Bf3 for example. Black also has to play very precisely, as O-O instead of d6 seems to give white an even bigger edge.
It's an intersting idea though.
ploucroux wrote:
Not busted per se, but as we discussed earlier in the topic it's not the best try for black.
It's not technically "busted" white still has a good edge :
1. e4 c5 2. Nf3 g6 3. d4 cxd4 4. Nxd4 Nc6 5. c4 Bg7 6. Be3 Nh6 7. Be2 d6 8. Nc3 O-O 9. O-O f5 10. exf5 Bxd4 11. Bxh6 Rxf5 12. Bf3 for example. Black also has to play very precisely, as O-O instead of d6 seems to give white an even bigger edge.
It's an intersting idea though.
my houdini gives me an evulation of 0.17 after 12 ... Bxc3. So white doesnt really have a edge.
Ah well, maybe it's not so bad then. I'm still not sure it's an easy position to play though. White has got clear, easy, plans when black has a backward e-pawn and slightly uncoordinated pieces.
Agree. White is easier to play.
finalunpurez wrote:
my houdini gives me an evulation of 0.17 after 12 ... Bxc3. So white doesnt really have a edge.
Houdini can only calculate variations, it doesn't have the slightest idea about chess and strategical evaluations. It's a big mistake to rely on his plus-minus nonsense.
He will realize the weakness on the dark squares only a few moves before being busted. In reality white's advantage is small, but very concrete.
pellik wrote:
I think it's equally based on the fact that houdini can defend those weak dark squares with defensive magic, where humans would just suffer.
No doubt that Houdini is an excellent defender. There's also no doubt that every chess trainer would speak very harshly to anyone who would play Bxc3 with the opponent's bishop planted on h6.
Just for the record, the position after Bxc3 has been played half a dozen of times in centaur chess (by not-so-strong centaurs). Black lost every single game with it, which means that even an engine may find it hard to defend so many weak squares. For a human, this variation is impractical, too dangerous and a bad choice.
pfren, yep, I also checked that line at some point, and play can go in a similar fashion after the delayed Morra (with 2.Nf3). I.e., in this line it is sometimes preferable to transpose into the Alapin you talked about. Bg4 before d6 is usually played, but i can't find any good chances for black after Bb5. Still, should at least hold a draw.
The f5 idea is interesting, seems to give play, i'll try and give it a shot, but the king safety looks rather shaky. Pfren, do you have that line with the timely f2-f3 you talked about ?