That's true - but after white wastes so much time, maybe I can try this speculative exchange sac?
On reviling the Dutch
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Dec 20, 2015
0
#83
TheDrevland wrote:
Actually after Qe7 white can still trade the bishop on d6 if he go Bb2 and Qc1 and Ba3 so you must be comfortable with the annoying trade on d6 to play the stonewall
Thankfully that plan is quite time consuming and not a critical test of Blacks setup. You are correct, though.
Dec 20, 2015
0
#84
#95 that exchange sac is really not worth it. If you're really keen on keeping the bishop play 9...b5!? and 10...b4. Best/most popular is simply 9...b6 10 Ba3 Bb7 when Black simply finishes development
Actually they could play the move a4 which allows the rook on a1 to help support a trade.
However, It was a move order mix up any way.
I was trying to get the ending position.
The 7.b3 line is the most popular variation.
However, I am not so sure if it is the best one.
Dec 20, 2015
0
#86
b6 is the bees knees in Dutch fashion these days, but I actually like the way they did it in the 1950s - after Qc2, I'll go Bd7 to e8 to g6. It takes some time, but that 'bad' bishop can become a beastly one.
Dec 20, 2015
0
#87
You might want to put it one square further down the road on h5, it's generally a better square.
The Dutch Defense has problem's.
However, It is far better than many lines in chess.
I don't blame you for playing it.
The Dutch never had the same appeal to me.
I like the Kings Indian Defense.
However, I will say the Leningrad Dutch has some KID flavor in it.
finn416- Castling Queenside is probably good in the position you give.
But the Dutch would be much more popular if white were to play 1 d4 f5
2e3.
Dec 20, 2015
0
#90
Spectator94 wrote:
You might want to put it one square further down the road on h5, it's generally a better square.
It normally is, but I was imagining the position with the queen still on the b1-h6 diagonal, so I had evil intentions of X-raying the lady.
X_PLAYER_J_X wrote:
finn416 wrote:
X_PLAYER_J_X wrote:
finn416 wrote:
Apperently noone is interested in my comments. I will delete them now.
Well I am interested in your comments.
Your the only person being nice to me as it turns out.
Why thank you. Turns out you're the only one here with common sense.
In your post # 69
If you are playing black in that position.
I would play the move 2...Nf6!
Yeah putting the knight on f6 is a very nice spot for that knight.
Oops! I did not see that. Nor have I ever seen or played (against) that line. Thanks for sharing!
joyntjezebel wrote:
finn416- Castling Queenside is probably good in the position you give.
But the Dutch would be much more popular if white were to play 1 d4 f5
2.e3.
It would. Everyone would play Dutch. There would be no other openings.
Dec 21, 2015
0
#93
AlisonHart wrote:
b6 is the bees knees in Dutch fashion these days, but I actually like the way they did it in the 1950s - after Qc2, I'll go Bd7 to e8 to g6. It takes some time, but that 'bad' bishop can become a beastly one.
Bronstein was playing the b6 idea in the 1951 WC match against Botvinnik. Both sides were using the dutch in that match particularly the stonewall.
A basic idea in the g3 stonewall is that white's good bg2 can be less effective than black's supposed bad one. Personally more comfortable with that idea in catalan/bogo positions with f-pawn still at home.
Two Move- Could you explain the last paragraph a bit please.
I have lots of experience of the white side of the stonewall, its much more common at club level than with the GMs. And the black QB sits on c8 or d7 looking stupid in the early part of the game, or for the whole game.
True whites KB mostly just guards the king, early anyway.
finn416 wrote:
joyntjezebel wrote:
finn416- Castling Queenside is probably good in the position you give.
But the Dutch would be much more popular if white were to play 1 d4 f5
2.e3.
It would. Everyone would play Dutch. There would be no other openings.
Your ranking is near the 1,000 mark which is actually very good.
The reason why I say this is because in that ranking range you will more than likely face e3 lines!
The London System, Colle System, and Torre Attack
They are all very very popular lines which are recommended to beginners and lower level players.
The line you gave in your diagram is a very practical and common line you will more than likely see.
Which means its good that you are asking about it.
I did an article on the London System which is played with the white side a while back.
I will give you the link below.
http://www.chess.com/blog/X_PLAYER_J_X/london-system
Yeah you might have already seen it being played against you.
It is a very popular line.
As black you can play the Dutch against it.
Actually now that I remember you should figure out which Dutch line you like.
There is like 3 different kinds.
The Leningrad Dutch
The Classical Dutch
The Stone Wall Dutch
Well since we are talking about the Dutch Defense.
I believe a Grand Master Immortal Game is required HA HA!
Yeah if you have never seen this Immortal game than you have been neglected.
This game is called Miguel Najdorf's Immortal game
Other names they have given it has been the Polish Immortal.
Since Miguel Najdorf was polish.
The above is the game sequence.
If you want to hear people talk about the moves with commentary/annotation's.
2 nice video's of it are online.
I will give you the link below.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=71ZzLL_IITY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=84ze4r-YkQY
Dec 21, 2015
0
#97
I got a computer immortal game. http://www.chessgames.com/perl/chessgame?gid=1604306
Dec 21, 2015
0
#98
In this type of catalan/bogo position the ba6 is doing more work than bg2, even though its the bad bishop.(on bb7 it is acheiving more too by preventing e4). Theoretically the stonewall is best against bg2 setups and more dubious when white can develop bd3/be2. The dutch is more extreme by having another pawn f5 on the white squares.
Thanks Two Move. I can well see your point in the position you give.
And black can try to bring something similar about in the Stonewall.
I think the reason this never happens in my games is ... my opponents are not good enough for that kind of thinking.
X_PLAYER_J_X wrote:
finn416 wrote:
joyntjezebel wrote:
finn416- Castling Queenside is probably good in the position you give.
But the Dutch would be much more popular if white were to play 1 d4 f5
2.e3.
It would. Everyone would play Dutch. There would be no other openings.
Your ranking is near the 1,000 mark which is actually very good.
The reason why I say this is because in that ranking range you will more than likely face e3 lines!
The London System, Colle System, and Torre Attack
They are all very very popular lines which are recommended to beginners and lower level players.
The line you gave in your diagram is a very practical and common line you will more than likely see.
Which means its good that you are asking about it.
I did an article on the London System which is played with the white side a while back.
I will give you the link below.
http://www.chess.com/blog/X_PLAYER_J_X/london-system
Yeah you might have already seen it being played against you.
It is a very popular line.
As black you can play the Dutch against it.
Actually now that I remember you should figure out which Dutch line you like.
There is like 3 different kinds.
The Leningrad Dutch
The Classical Dutch
The Stone Wall Dutch
Thanks for that. Very interesting diagrams. The Leningrad is rather awkward for the bishops. The Classic has potential for following moves that could be of great use. And the Stonewall looks solid but is a tad weak in terms of white squares on the kingside. And that light-squared bishop(which is the best piece for that job) is locked away. Ultimately, I prefer the Classic Dutch. However, the CM doesn't like it that much from what his comment tells me.
Actually after Qe7 white can still trade the bishop on d6 if he go Bb2 and Qc1 and Ba3 so you must be comfortable with the annoying trade on d6 to play the stonewall