Playing against the Queen's Indian as White

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Avatar of Slav2Luv

Kingside fianchetto with g6 is probably most common, and slightly best. But is about personal taste? For example I like to avoid the Nimzo with f3, because I prefer to face d5 or QID. And meet QID with e3, Spassky system, which is very solid. Probably not very best or exciting, but at my level is comfortable. And a6 to stop the bishop goes well too. But playing as white, the QID is not a scary opening?! Much easier than facing the dreaded NimzoIndian.

Avatar of misayan07

Yes, but you gain much more activity with white against the Nimzo-Indian than you do against the Queen's Indian.

Avatar of Slav2Luv

But Nimzo guys have a plan B right? So if we assume Nimzo is plan A... by avoiding you make them go plan B? As in QID, Bogo, d5 etc. Which they will be less familiar with.

Avatar of misayan07

Yes, you have to have a plan B if you intend to play Nimzo-Indian. If White goes 3. Nf3, Black has four moves:

3...b6 (Queen's Indian Defense)

3... Bb4+ (Bogo-Indian Defence)

3... d5 (Queen's Gambit Declined)

3... c5 (Benoni)

Avatar of misayan07

So I play Nimzo-Indian and in general against 3. Nf3 I play the Bogo-Indian because of the possible transposition with 4. Nc3 and also because many of the strategic themes are similar to the Nimzo-Indian.

Avatar of misayan07

While the Queen's Indian has some different strategic ideas, especially against variation like 4. a3, somethink you generally won't see in the Nimzo-Indian (as the bishop is already on b4, a3 can only dislodge it, not prevent it to try to fight for e4).

Avatar of Optimissed
Slav2Luv wrote:

But Nimzo guys have a plan B right? So if we assume Nimzo is plan A... by avoiding you make them go plan B? As in QID, Bogo, d5 etc. Which they will be less familiar with.

Is that logical? Nimzo might just as equally be plan b. They might go queen's gambit declined, which is the most solid reply to d4c4.

Avatar of misayan07

Well, from the first move against 1.d4 you either go for the Indian defenses with 1... Nf6 or you go into the Queen's Gambit with 1... d5. I don't understand how you want the Nimzo-Indian to be a Plan B defense if Queen's Gambit Declined is your first choice

Avatar of misayan07

You see, in the Nimzo-Indian, Black will generally refrain from pushing d5, as his objective is to control e4 with pieces such as the Nf6 and Bb7

Avatar of misayan07

That was my view on a QID/Nimzo repertoire. However, many players choose to transpose into the QGD when faced with 3. Nf3, playing 3... d5. As far as I know, though, you can't transpose to a Nimzo from a QGD

Avatar of Optimissed

Just as some players of the black side will play the Modern Benoni but not against 3. Nc3. Against 3. Nc3 they might play the Nimzo or the QGD. As a player of the black pieces I'm familiar with the QGD and the Modern Benoni but I'm not familiar with the Nimzo from black's point of view, because I wouldn't play it. I'm equally happy in a Modern Benoni and a QGD but I tend to be gravitating more towards the QGD. I suspect it's a deeply misunderstood opening .... that is, at club and county levels that I used to frequent.

There's no reason why the QI and the QGD shouldn't form part of the same repertoire because they're both very solid whereas the NI arguably isn't as solid. QI might be the preference and QGD as plan b.

Avatar of misayan07

I see what you mean. The Queen's Indian and Queen's Gambit Declined are both solid, even though they don't often share the same strategic themes.

However, the Nimzo-Indian with Black has completely different strategic themes. As Black, you try to pressurize the c3 and c4 pawns, and you will often obtain good piece play and play in the center.

Avatar of misayan07

I've actually never played the Benoni on move 2 (1. d4 Nf6 2. c4 c5) because the lines with f4 and e4-e5 seem dangerous. If you're planning to play the Benoni, you should use the move order 1. d4 Nf6 2. c4 e6 3. Nf3 c5. Against 3. Nc3, though, you need to know either the Nimzo-Indian or the Queen's Gambit Declined.

I know this is a bit of a miscellaneous post, but you mentioned the Benoni so I wanted to put this out there.

Avatar of Optimissed
misayan07 wrote:

I see what you mean. The Queen's Indian and Queen's Gambit Declined are both solid, even though they don't often share the same strategic themes.

However, the Nimzo-Indian with Black has completely different strategic themes. As Black, you try to pressurize the c3 and c4 pawns, and you will often obtain good piece play and play in the center.

Just as, with white, I'm always prepared to drop a c-pawn if my k-side attack looks as if it will land. The Nimzo isn't any more sound than the Modern Benoni and maybe even less sound, if black is playing to win.

Avatar of Slav2Luv

But doesn't Nimzo score best against D4? Apart from Slav, maybe. And, as I understand, QID is the favourite plan B for master player.

Avatar of Optimissed

In the Mar del Plata White only loses if he forgets to defend the kingside. The person I habitually play at our club plays it. The only time I lose is when I sac a knight for two pawns in the ending and it goes wrong. 

Avatar of Optimissed

QGD is my new favourite after years of diminishing returns from the Modern Benoni, which more and more people have studied these days.

Avatar of joseb84

Apologies I know this was originally a 'from white' perspective, but if I want to vary from QID against 3. Nf3 then I enjoy the Blumenfeld gambit rather than a pure-Benoni approach. Partly because the idea is completely different to the Indian defences - occupy the centre as black rather than control from afar. This can throw white, especially if they know you are usually an Indian player!

Avatar of Slav2Luv
Optimissed wrote:

QGD is my new favourite after years of diminishing returns from the Modern Benoni, which more and more people have studied these days.

So what you suggest is like a fake Nimzo? And go for either D5 or QIndian. But don't those get boring? Nimzo is more excitement, yes?

Avatar of misayan07
joseb84 wrote:

Apologies I know this was originally a 'from white' perspective, but if I want to vary from QID against 3. Nf3 then I enjoy the Blumenfeld gambit rather than a pure-Benoni approach. Partly because the idea is completely different to the Indian defences - occupy the centre as black rather than control from afar. This can throw white, especially if they know you are usually an Indian player!

Well, the Blumenfeld has been mostly refuted, and if White knows the complications, Black can't hope for more than equality. But the thing is, the gambit is pretty rare, so chances are White doesn't know what's going on.