Question for advanced players

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UncleHAL9000

Tonight I've been experimenting with some new openings. I've come across two that are similar. The Philidor defense and the Tennison gambit. How would you rate these openings? Are they viable option to use? What color do they work best with? Which one do you prefer if any? Thank you in advance. 

ThrillerFan

There is no similarity at all between the Philidor and the Tennison Gambit.

 

First off, one of them is a Gambit played by White and the other is a Defense to 1.e4 by Black

One is sound, but passive.  The other is completely unsound!

 

Philidor's Defense - It is sound, but very passive compared to other defenses, such as defending the Ruy Lopez, the Petroff, the Sicilian, the French, or the Caro-Kann.  Also, it is best played with the Pirc move order (1.e4 d6 2.d4 Nf6 3.Nc3 e5) because it has been determined that White gets a big advantage in the Antoshin, Lasker, and Exchange Variations, all likes that come from the 1...e5 move order.

A book called "The Philidor Files" is probably the best resource.

 

The Tennison Gambit, on the other hand, is utter cr*p, and basically busted.  It arises from either 1.Nf3 d5 2.e4? or answering the Scandinavian with 2.Nf3 via 1.e4 d5 2.Nf3? (yes, a full question mark - BAD - Not Dubious).

Black has a clear advantage after 1.e4 d5 2.Nf3 dxe4 3.Ng5 e5!! (Stronger than lines where Black tries to hold the pawn like 3...f5, 3...Bf5 or 3...Nf6) 4.Nxe4 f5! 5.Ng3 Bc5 with a clear advantage to Black!

 

Tennison Gambit is complete garbage!  Look elsewhere!

UncleHAL9000

That's why I asked. I lost that tennison game anyway.

UncleHAL9000

How about the Queen's pawn game, Zukertort variation?

kindaspongey

"THE PHILIDOR FILES ... presents massive amounts of analysis ... The analysis ... is too much for players under 1800. ..."

http://www.jeremysilman.com/shop/pc/Philidor-Files-The-76p3838.htm

kindaspongey

Possibly of interest:

Discovering Chess Openingshttps://web.archive.org/web/20140627114655/http://www.chesscafe.com/text/hansen91.pdf

Openings for Amateurs by Pete Tamburro (2014)
http://kenilworthian.blogspot.com/2014/05/review-of-pete-tamburros-openings-for.html
https://chessbookreviews.wordpress.com/tag/openings-for-amateurs/
https://www.mongoosepress.com/catalog/excerpts/openings_amateurs.pdf

First Steps: 1 e4 e5
https://www.newinchess.com/media/wysiwyg/product_pdf/7790.pdf

https://chesscafe.com/book-reviews/first-steps-1-e4-e5-by-john-emms/

First Steps: Queen's Gambit

https://www.newinchess.com/media/wysiwyg/product_pdf/7652.pdf

My First Chess Opening Repertoire for White
https://www.newinchess.com/media/wysiwyg/product_pdf/9033.pdf
https://chessbookreviews.wordpress.com/tag/vincent-moret/
Opening Repertoire 1 e4
https://www.newinchess.com/media/wysiwyg/product_pdf/7819.pdf

user78003413

You're asking this question when you're blitz is 471

ChessieSystem101
GM_Kenny_Ji wrote:

You're asking this question when you're blitz is 471

so

ChessieSystem101

he can ask whatever he wants, 

UncleHAL9000
GM_Kenny_Ji wrote:

You're asking this question when you're blitz is 471

Don't you have a race bait thread to continue. Move along!!!

UncleHAL9000
IMBacon wrote:
UncleHAL9000 wrote:

Tonight I've been experimenting with some new openings. I've come across two that are similar. The Philidor defense and the Tennison gambit. How would you rate these openings? Are they viable option to use? What color do they work best with? Which one do you prefer if any? Thank you in advance. 

Openings are the last t hing you should be working on. 

Your time should be spent playing slow time controls, doing tactics, and reviewing your games. 

Unless youre here just for fun then carry on!

I can spend my time doing what I like. Perhaps you should earn a IM title instead of declaring yourself one in your screen name.

UncleHAL9000

Oh no! Lookout! The grammar police! Thank you for correcting me oh gracious master! Perhaps we will worship you later. Not!

It was pointed out. Oh thank you for correcting me again. Don't be a dink! 

And enjoy your block. 

Closed66665

Don't play Phillidor, most of the times white gets a very good attack. You will have to defend accurately. Anyways focus on tactics and learn openings just by analyzing your games. 

lostpawn247
UncleHAL9000 wrote:
IMBacon wrote:
UncleHAL9000 wrote:

Tonight I've been experimenting with some new openings. I've come across two that are similar. The Philidor defense and the Tennison gambit. How would you rate these openings? Are they viable option to use? What color do they work best with? Which one do you prefer if any? Thank you in advance. 

Openings are the last t hing you should be working on. 

Your time should be spent playing slow time controls, doing tactics, and reviewing your games. 

Unless youre here just for fun then carry on!

I can spend my time doing what I like. Perhaps you should earn a IM title instead of declaring yourself one in your screen name.

 

You really shouldn't bite the hand that is trying to feed you.  IMBacon is giving you good advice in stating that playing slow games, working on tactics (To avoid mistakes), and to review your games will be more beneficial to your game than to work on openings (Especially the two that you listed because they are either unsound, or just not right for you right now).  If you are going to snap at people who give you advice, you will have a shortage of people willing to help you in the future.

I wish you the best of luck in your future endeavors because I'm not going to spend any more time on what you post.

 

UncleHAL9000
lostpawn247 wrote:
UncleHAL9000 wrote:
IMBacon wrote:
UncleHAL9000 wrote:

Tonight I've been experimenting with some new openings. I've come across two that are similar. The Philidor defense and the Tennison gambit. How would you rate these openings? Are they viable option to use? What color do they work best with? Which one do you prefer if any? Thank you in advance. 

Openings are the last t hing you should be working on. 

Your time should be spent playing slow time controls, doing tactics, and reviewing your games. 

Unless youre here just for fun then carry on!

I can spend my time doing what I like. Perhaps you should earn a IM title instead of declaring yourself one in your screen name.

 

You really shouldn't bite the hand that is trying to feed you.  IMBacon is giving you good advice in stating that playing slow games, working on tactics (To avoid mistakes), and to review your games will be more beneficial to your game than to work on openings (Especially the two that you listed because they are either unsound, or just not right for you right now).  If you are going to snap at people who give you advice, you will have a shortage of people willing to help you in the future.

I wish you the best of luck in your future endeavors because I'm not going to spend any more time on what you post.

 

I don't have a problem with people trying to help. Its people who think they have a right to speak down to me. 

The thing is I know about tactics. I do them and analyze my games. The thing is chess has three phases. An opening, a middlegame, and an endgame. There's no point in studying the middlegame (tactics) if you don't have a proper opening and your pieces aren't in the correct position. There's also no point if you get your pieces there and can't finish.

When I went to school I didn't just have one class. There was math, English, etc. That is what I'm doing here. People are capable of learning more than one thing at once. But its tactics, tactics, tactics, and if I don't do tactics all day I've commited a mortal sin. 

It reminds me of the story of the Jewish man who scolds his child for not reading his Talmud from sunup to sundown. And they wonder why there's as many secular Jews as there are religious ones. 

Not to get into a religious debate or tell someone how to raise their child but my point is to expect someone to do the same thing over and over and over day after day after day is absolutely boring. I need variety. I need stimulation. 

Its actually kind of simple really. In terms of Algebra you have x+y=z. To apply that to chess its opening + middlegame= endgame. For me I can't have one part of the equation with plugging in the other parts.

Now as far as other people. There are some people on here who think they know it all yet no matter what question you ask their answer is tactics. Some of those same people feel the need to talk down to others out of arrogance or ignorance I have yet to figure that out.

There's a way to do things and a way not to do things. Some people aren't meant to teach. Especially if they don't realize that not every student will fit in the same mold.

And as far as you or anyonelse ignoring me, I wont lose sleep over it. Some people get it and some people don't.

UncleHAL9000

I actually have study endgames. I have a whole playlist of YouTube videos on them. The rooks are my coondogs. Most of my checkmates come with them. IM John Bartholomew has a video where he talks about how to line up pieces and overwhelm your opponent. Its a good strategy for me as I grew up in the woods and every hillbilly learned how to shoot. Reminds me of way back when and target shooting.

As far as openings, I am looking for a few to playannd please not the queens gambit. No! Queens gambit seems like the go to answer just like tactics. I do have one that I play most of the time but I'd like to mix it up. Soon enough I'll have repeat opponents and idlike to throw them off my scent with a few different maneuvers.

lostpawn247

The reason working on tactics for beginners is highly emphasized is that it develops your pattern recognition and helps you avoid mistakes.  It might be boring to continually work on them but in order to become a stronger player, you need to be able to get to the point where you can subconsciously avoid mistakes and be able to take advantage of mistakes that your opponent makes.

Games at the sub-1000 level are most often lost because one player hangs more pieces and makes more mistakes than the other.  Openings are rarely if ever a factor when it comes to determining why a player loses.

Chess isn't as simple as Openings + Middle Games = Endgames.  There are numerous skills that you need to work on to become a strong player.  I understand why you would want to balance out your time to become a well rounded player.  You should understand that more experienced players (Like IMBacon) have the wisdom to know what skills should be prioritized and when it should become a point of emphasis.

Zugerzwang
The Tennison Gambit is not recommended. It is related to the Budapest Gambit, not the Philidor Defense. It is like playing the Budapest a move ahead as White (where Black hasn't yet played ... c7-c5). This might sound good, but it actually works in Black's favor that White is playing the Budapest a tempo ahead, and that ... c5 hasn't yet been played. Now Black's king's bishop can come out without being blocked by a pawn at ... c5. The simplest and probably best line for Black is to just return the pawn with the superior position, as given by Thrillerfan above. The gambit might be fun to play against players unprepared for it, but is better used in blitz and non-rated play if you just want to experiment with it for fun.
The Philidor Defense is quite a sound and solid opening when handled properly by Black. There aren't too many recent books on it. It can give Black a somewhat cramped position for awhile, but White often isn't prepared for this opening. I agree with Thrillerfan that the Philidor files by Christian Baer is the best resource. No one is forcing you to memorize every detailed variation in it (it's around 300 pages of text). You could just spend a couple hours learning the main variations from the index in the back after reading the 5 page introduction, and you're on your way. Then just use the book as a reference to consult after playing some games and you will become an expert in that opening in a fun way without spending countless hours trying to memorize detailed variations which you'd be likely to forget before you have occasion to use them. That's how I always recommended students to study. Rote memorization isn't fun (at least for me).
If you simply want a repertoire book which is somewhat briefer, I'd recommend The Philidor: A Secret Weapon by Christian Seel. It's only around 120 pages of actual text. From the back cover: "Overall, the quality of this book is of a very high standard with regard to author input, original analysis, improvements over existing theory, explanatory prose and even production value" - Carsten Hansen on ChessCafe.com.
There are a number of older books and booklets you might find online, to just get a flavor of the opening. It can be a dangerous defense for Black if he doesn't know how to properly play it. An interesting book only 34 pages long (really a stapled booklet) is "Why Not the Philidor Defense?" By IGM Bent Larsen, who used to sometimes play it. It was published by Chess Digest in 1971, so obviously long out of
date and would need to be supplemented by more recent material, but much easier to read and study as an introduction than the voluminous texts of more recent years.
The Colle Koltanowski and Colle Zukertort are also good openings suitable as a beginning repertoire and can even be played at much higher levels. The Torre Attack is another.
UncleHAL9000
Manatini wrote:

The Chigorin and Baltic will throw off many 1.d4 players.

The "secret" (if you can call it that) to openings though, is that any opening can be a killer if you put a lot of work into it... at least this is true at the amateur level, but I'm guessing neither you or I will be GMs any time soon

My rating is actually the least of my concerns. I'm not here to pull out rulers to see who's got the bigger king. 

That's why I never played chess. Everyone I knew played chess. They'd talk so much smack and flex their muscles for whatever reason. Expected people to stroke their egos. Now that they are all gone from my life, dead, or in jail, I see that chess is so much more than what any of them had thought possible. 6 months from now I could crush all of them but as I said I'm not here for that.

My brother and I have never seen eye to eye on very much in our lives. He is currently serving a life sentence in the Kentucky State Penitentiary. Regardless how you or I feel about his conviction he is still my brother. Though we are not on speaking terms, we may be again one day.

He's four and half hours from home. His wife and my Mom are not capable of visiting. His only real link to the outside world is correspondence. Maybe if one day we work things out and can speak again, we could pass some time playing chess. 

I'm not here to be a God. If your king is bigger than mine, more power to you. For me, chess is something else.

kindaspongey

"... for those that want to be as good as they can be, they'll have to work hard.
Play opponents who are better than you … . Learn basic endgames. Create a simple opening repertoire (understanding the moves are far more important than memorizing them). Study tactics. And pick up tons of patterns. That’s the drumbeat of success. ..." - IM Jeremy Silman (December 27, 2018)
https://www.chess.com/article/view/little-things-that-help-your-game