in the exchange variation I don't see how ...c6 would be premature.
Without it you cannot develop your light squared bishop without running into problems. Sometimes even if white has his bishop on f4, for example:
1.d4 d5 2.c4 e6 3.Nc3 Be7 (a different move for black, to prevent Bg5)4.cxd5 exd5 5.Bf4 Nf6 6.e3 Bf5 7.Qb3
And here black should play the gambit Nc6, that should be alright in theory but I would prefer to be white to be honest.
The point of hoping to play ...c5 in only one move does not really apply to the exchange variation, that is played to discourage black from breaking free because ...c5 would turn into a bad isolated pawn for black.
Question on the queens gambit declined
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Do you really have good results with that early c5?
Jul 19, 2013
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#24
plutonia wrote:
in the exchange variation I don't see how ...c6 would be premature.
Without it you cannot develop your light squared bishop without running into problems. Sometimes even if white has his bishop on f4, for example:
1.d4 d5 2.c4 e6 3.Nc3 Be7 (a different move for black, to prevent Bg5)4.cxd5 exd5 5.Bf4 Nf6 6.e3 Bf5 7.Qb3
And here black should play the gambit Nc6, that should be alright in theory but I would prefer to be white to be honest.
The point of hoping to play ...c5 in only one move does not really apply to the exchange variation, that is played to discourage black from breaking free because ...c5 would turn into a bad isolated pawn for black.
If you refer back to my first post in this thread, somewhere in the teens for message number, I mentioned that playing c6 immediately when White exchanges is best, so in the exchange variation, no, it's not pre-mature, and is totally recommended. 1.d4 d5 2.c4 e6 3.Nc3 Nf6 4.cxd5 exd5 5.Bg5 c6!
Where it's pre-mature is when White DOES NOT play the exchange variation AND White has not committed yet to Rc1 vs Qc2 (7th move if White plays the normal move order, d4, c4, Nc3, Bg5, e3, Nf3, and then Rc1 or Qc2). White plays 7.Rc1, Black's pawn belongs on c6. White plays 7.Qc2, Black's pawn belong on c5 instead.
if someone would force me to play this boring QGD crap, i would quit playing chess...
I agree. Real chess is hard.
noleryer hat geschrieben:
Same here, makes me hate chess.
good to know, that iam not the only one, who is thinking this way...you are welcome
noleryer hat geschrieben:
Dark_Falcon wrote:
noleryer hat geschrieben:
Same here, makes me hate chess.
good to know, that iam not the only one, who is thinking this way...you are welcome
Yeah sometimes i play e5 just to avoid it even though it puts me at a disadvantage.
1...e5 is my main response to 1.d4...the Englund-Gambit maybe crap compared with the QGD, but its much more fun to play and i play it as long as my results are OK with it.
LOL I'll take this over losing because I didn't play some GM refutation anyday.
Life...dreams...hope...Were'd they come from? And where are they headed...? These things...I'm going to destroy!
I, Hate hate hate hate hate hate hate hate hate hate hate hate hate hate hate hate hate hate hate hate hate hate hate hate hate hate hate hate hate hate hate hate hate hate hate hate hate hate hate hate hate hate hate hate hate hate hate hate hate hate hate hate hate hate hate hate
But seriously why did you hijack a thread about the queen's gambit decline so you could talk about how much you hate the queen's gambit decline and would rather lose then play it?
In addition to what the last post has said about not including moves, here's another thing to keep in mind. There was a middlegame book on what is called the "Carlsbad Pawn Structure", named so because of its popularity at a tournament in Carlsbad in 1924.
Specifically, that pawn structure is WP's on a2, b2, d4, e3, f2, g2, h2, with a semi-open c-file. BP's on a7, b7, c6, d5, f7, g7, h7, with a semi-open e-file. Believe it or not, this pawn structure occurs in a number of different openings. The "most common" is the Exchange Variation of the Queen's Gambit Declined (the 4.cxd5 exd5 line talked about earlier). However, it frequently occurs in the Nimzo-Indian (main difference here is in the 4.e3 Nimzo, White's DSB is behind the pawn chain instead of on g5), and another frequent occurance is in the Exchange Caro-Kann, only the roles are reversed. Black has the semi-open c-file whereas White has the semi-open e-file, but it's a little more difficult for Black to execute the minority attack as he's behind a move.
There's actually a book published in 1997 called "Middlegame Strategy with the Carlsbad Pawn Structure". Talks about the Minority Attack, the four possibilites of central pawn structure after the central attack (f3 and e4), and the opposite side castling pawn storm approach.