Rank Every Defense Against 1. E4 From Favorite To Least Favorite (In Your Opinion)

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Dabi
lassus_dinnao wrote:
Ilampozhil25 написал:

i just hate caro

but if i put it low then all the caro fans will hunt for my head

but you are just allowed to hate e5 without consequence

wth

Nobody likes caro. we play it only because of the huge win rate that it can give

.

Fantasy variation players -

Refrigerator321
lassus_dinnao wrote:
PotatoesAndChess написал:
lassus_dinnao wrote:

1. Sicilian

2. French

3. Caro-kann

4. Modern

5. Nimzowitch

6. Scandinavian

7. Owens

8. e5

9. St.George

10. Pirc

11. Alekhine

12. The BOOOORG

13. Duras

14. Barnes

15. bad

Ok wow that is the weirdest list I've ever seen

Sicilian at one is reasonable and French and Caro up there is good, but e5, the top computer move, the number two move in the master database, the most concrete, objectively good, and resistant defense, at number EIGHT?!

apparently the duras gambit, losing a pawn and severely weakening your king, is less bad than h6, which does nothing but at least slightly improves your position

The pirc is lower than the Owens, which is barely sound, and the st. george, which barely accomplishes anything?

This is definitely the strangest ranking I've ever seen, but maybe, just maybe, not the worst

I just hate e5 and pirc seems boring

1. What's wrong with e5?

2. The Pirc is not boring at all. It's one of the most sharp, risky, and aggressive defenses to e4

1Lindamea1
Dabi написал:
lassus_dinnao wrote:
Ilampozhil25 написал:

i just hate caro

but if i put it low then all the caro fans will hunt for my head

but you are just allowed to hate e5 without consequence

wth

Nobody likes caro. we play it only because of the huge win rate that it can give

.

Fantasy variation players -

Fantasy is the most glass cannon opening in chess. Just go Qb6 or e6 dxe

1Lindamea1
PotatoesAndChess написал:
lassus_dinnao wrote:
PotatoesAndChess написал:
lassus_dinnao wrote:

1. Sicilian

2. French

3. Caro-kann

4. Modern

5. Nimzowitch

6. Scandinavian

7. Owens

8. e5

9. St.George

10. Pirc

11. Alekhine

12. The BOOOORG

13. Duras

14. Barnes

15. bad

Ok wow that is the weirdest list I've ever seen

Sicilian at one is reasonable and French and Caro up there is good, but e5, the top computer move, the number two move in the master database, the most concrete, objectively good, and resistant defense, at number EIGHT?!

apparently the duras gambit, losing a pawn and severely weakening your king, is less bad than h6, which does nothing but at least slightly improves your position

The pirc is lower than the Owens, which is barely sound, and the st. george, which barely accomplishes anything?

This is definitely the strangest ranking I've ever seen, but maybe, just maybe, not the worst

I just hate e5 and pirc seems boring

1. What's wrong with e5?

2. The Pirc is not boring at all. It's one of the most sharp, risky, and aggressive defenses to e4

I don't like the amount of theory you need to even manage to survive the opening. And pirc is boring because my friend plays it and he plays it in the most boring way possible.

Refrigerator321

If he's playing the pirc in a boring way, he's playing it wrong

pleewo

It might be the Czech Pirc where some people find it boring. Also you don’t need to know that much theory to stay alive in open game. Just develop your pieces naturally, know maybe some theory and plans and ur all good 👍

1Lindamea1
FrogboyWarpz написал:

It might be the Czech Pirc where some people find it boring. Also you don’t need to know that much theory to stay alive in open game. Just develop your pieces naturally, know maybe some theory and plans and ur all good 👍

e5 isn't bad, I just personally like it less than other options on the list

JohnyShowtime
lassus_dinnao wrote:
PotatoesAndChess написал:
lassus_dinnao wrote:
PotatoesAndChess написал:
lassus_dinnao wrote:

1. Sicilian

2. French

3. Caro-kann

4. Modern

5. Nimzowitch

6. Scandinavian

7. Owens

8. e5

9. St.George

10. Pirc

11. Alekhine

12. The BOOOORG

13. Duras

14. Barnes

15. bad

Ok wow that is the weirdest list I've ever seen

Sicilian at one is reasonable and French and Caro up there is good, but e5, the top computer move, the number two move in the master database, the most concrete, objectively good, and resistant defense, at number EIGHT?!

apparently the duras gambit, losing a pawn and severely weakening your king, is less bad than h6, which does nothing but at least slightly improves your position

The pirc is lower than the Owens, which is barely sound, and the st. george, which barely accomplishes anything?

This is definitely the strangest ranking I've ever seen, but maybe, just maybe, not the worst

I just hate e5 and pirc seems boring

1. What's wrong with e5?

2. The Pirc is not boring at all. It's one of the most sharp, risky, and aggressive defenses to e4

I don't like the amount of theory you need to even manage to survive the opening. And pirc is boring because my friend plays it and he plays it in the most boring way possible.

Watching GM Hikaru's stream last night literally talking about how there is a basic amount of opening theory everyone needs, but other than that you shouldn't even start learning anything more advanced in opening theory until you are at 2000 or higher.

I am bad at the game and your higher rated than me but the kings indian and pirc are very different openings I know, but positionally there is only 1 pawn move difference and in a large amount of my kings indian games I will end up playing that pawn to support a pawn break at c5 and end up in a position we could have also gotten to if I had played the pirc on an E4 opening instead of a d4 opening.

I personally love the kings indian/Pirc because as someone who is newer-ish to learning some openings and wanting to learn a way to open as black without needing to know a different opening against both E4 and D4 and each variation of the same... from a newbie perspective the Pirc Defense is the Pirc Defense but the Caro Kann can be the "Advanced", the "Exchange", the "Fantasy", The "Panov", and each of these have very different lines with huge problems, and traps if you don't know what your doing with each, and white gets to kinda decided which caro variation it wants to play.

1Lindamea1
JohnyShowtime написал:
lassus_dinnao wrote:
PotatoesAndChess написал:
lassus_dinnao wrote:
PotatoesAndChess написал:
lassus_dinnao wrote:

1. Sicilian

2. French

3. Caro-kann

4. Modern

5. Nimzowitch

6. Scandinavian

7. Owens

8. e5

9. St.George

10. Pirc

11. Alekhine

12. The BOOOORG

13. Duras

14. Barnes

15. bad

Ok wow that is the weirdest list I've ever seen

Sicilian at one is reasonable and French and Caro up there is good, but e5, the top computer move, the number two move in the master database, the most concrete, objectively good, and resistant defense, at number EIGHT?!

apparently the duras gambit, losing a pawn and severely weakening your king, is less bad than h6, which does nothing but at least slightly improves your position

The pirc is lower than the Owens, which is barely sound, and the st. george, which barely accomplishes anything?

This is definitely the strangest ranking I've ever seen, but maybe, just maybe, not the worst

I just hate e5 and pirc seems boring

1. What's wrong with e5?

2. The Pirc is not boring at all. It's one of the most sharp, risky, and aggressive defenses to e4

I don't like the amount of theory you need to even manage to survive the opening. And pirc is boring because my friend plays it and he plays it in the most boring way possible.

Watching GM Hikaru's stream last night literally talking about how there is a basic amount of opening theory everyone needs, but other than that you shouldn't even start learning anything more advanced in opening theory until you are at 2000 or higher.

I am bad at the game and your higher rated than me but the kings indian and pirc are very different openings I know, but positionally there is only 1 pawn move difference and in a large amount of my kings indian games I will end up playing that pawn to support a pawn break at c5 and end up in a position we could have also gotten to if I had played the pirc on an E4 opening instead of a d4 opening.

I personally love the kings indian/Pirc because as someone who is newer-ish to learning some openings and wanting to learn a way to open as black without needing to know a different opening against both E4 and D4 and each variation of the same... from a newbie perspective the Pirc Defense is the Pirc Defense but the Caro Kann can be the "Advanced", the "Exchange", the "Fantasy", The "Panov", and each of these have very different lines with huge problems, and traps if you don't know what your doing with each, and white gets to kinda decided which caro variation it wants to play.

I see that my ranking made quite a lot of controversy, so I have to tell something. I absolutely love every defence black has, but pirc is my least favourite not because its bad, but because I LOVE the owen and st george. They both are amazing. owen gets you very sharp positions when played as e6b6, and st george is extremely fun to play because of the queenside expansion that it can offer. e5 is low not because its bad, but because I love the other options more. Even the scandi is so high because of the icelandic and portugiese gambits that allow super sharp attacks. Duras is also very fun when opponents malfunction and instead of losing you get an advantage: you traded your flank pawn for opponents central and got an open file for the rook. Barnes is one of my favourites bc you can literally use your king in the attack, looking like a positional genius(only in bullet of course). That's all.

AngryPuffer
PotatoesAndChess wrote:
lassus_dinnao wrote:
PotatoesAndChess написал:
lassus_dinnao wrote:

1. Sicilian

2. French

3. Caro-kann

4. Modern

5. Nimzowitch

6. Scandinavian

7. Owens

8. e5

9. St.George

10. Pirc

11. Alekhine

12. The BOOOORG

13. Duras

14. Barnes

15. bad

Ok wow that is the weirdest list I've ever seen

Sicilian at one is reasonable and French and Caro up there is good, but e5, the top computer move, the number two move in the master database, the most concrete, objectively good, and resistant defense, at number EIGHT?!

apparently the duras gambit, losing a pawn and severely weakening your king, is less bad than h6, which does nothing but at least slightly improves your position

The pirc is lower than the Owens, which is barely sound, and the st. george, which barely accomplishes anything?

This is definitely the strangest ranking I've ever seen, but maybe, just maybe, not the worst

I just hate e5 and pirc seems boring

1. What's wrong with e5?

2. The Pirc is not boring at all. It's one of the most sharp, risky, and aggressive defenses to e4

the pirc is extremely risky and i would take white every game

the austrian attack is just too strong of an opening choice for white and he easily holds an advantage

this is just the main line tho, white has a million other options that i can play and still hold a good advantage

Dabi

Pirc is stupid, caro is trash, Sicilian is ok, scandi is manageable

Modern is good, king's Indian is God, nimzo Indian is great,

Slav is god

JohnyShowtime
AngryPuffer wrote:
PotatoesAndChess wrote:
lassus_dinnao wrote:
PotatoesAndChess написал:
lassus_dinnao wrote:

1. Sicilian

2. French

3. Caro-kann

4. Modern

5. Nimzowitch

6. Scandinavian

7. Owens

8. e5

9. St.George

10. Pirc

11. Alekhine

12. The BOOOORG

13. Duras

14. Barnes

15. bad

Ok wow that is the weirdest list I've ever seen

Sicilian at one is reasonable and French and Caro up there is good, but e5, the top computer move, the number two move in the master database, the most concrete, objectively good, and resistant defense, at number EIGHT?!

apparently the duras gambit, losing a pawn and severely weakening your king, is less bad than h6, which does nothing but at least slightly improves your position

The pirc is lower than the Owens, which is barely sound, and the st. george, which barely accomplishes anything?

This is definitely the strangest ranking I've ever seen, but maybe, just maybe, not the worst

I just hate e5 and pirc seems boring

1. What's wrong with e5?

2. The Pirc is not boring at all. It's one of the most sharp, risky, and aggressive defenses to e4

the pirc is extremely risky and i would take white every game

the austrian attack is just too strong of an opening choice for white and he easily holds an advantage

this is just the main line tho, white has a million other options that i can play and still hold a good advantage

i mean yeah a few moves in looks great for white... however, the entire opening is done on the basis of giving up center control and letting white basically have everything and then launching a huge counter attack back into the center.

When you look at an opening and then look at the most aggressive variation for white and pick white its because black played an anti-confrontational opening in order to counter attack later... you picked the austrian attack which is literally the most confrontational response, and then saying to yourself "I see all these ways to attack white has. I like white in this postion." however, you also need to understand that black is going to have a lot of ways to pick up tempo later, you are going to develop pieces to then later need to use them in a trade to stay even in points but black is able to use undeveloped pieces in that same trade. your diagonals around the king are open. your f3 pawn is not were you would want it to be, thus your king side is a little weaker while blacks is about as strong as it can get. Please castle queen side cause like I said blacks king is pretty safe and that pawn storm is gonna be difficult to deal with.

Point is you can't pick the most aggressive line against a setup based defense, and say whites better because look at all those attacking opportunities... Because I want you to really ask yourself how many of those opportunities are really that scary, because just about all of those lines you looking at black can just trade and simplify if they are not comfortable playing them.

Ill take a nuke over a thousand rock filled slingshots any day of the week please...

Lazerkings0809

I like the caro-kann,then the frech denfence,pirc denfense ofc

Lazerkings0809

and modern denfense or owen denfense

Lazerkings0809

king indian denfense maybe a good choice

Lazerkings0809

??

AngryPuffer
JohnyShowtime wrote:
AngryPuffer wrote:
PotatoesAndChess wrote:
lassus_dinnao wrote:
PotatoesAndChess написал:
lassus_dinnao wrote:

1. Sicilian

2. French

3. Caro-kann

4. Modern

5. Nimzowitch

6. Scandinavian

7. Owens

8. e5

9. St.George

10. Pirc

11. Alekhine

12. The BOOOORG

13. Duras

14. Barnes

15. bad

Ok wow that is the weirdest list I've ever seen

Sicilian at one is reasonable and French and Caro up there is good, but e5, the top computer move, the number two move in the master database, the most concrete, objectively good, and resistant defense, at number EIGHT?!

apparently the duras gambit, losing a pawn and severely weakening your king, is less bad than h6, which does nothing but at least slightly improves your position

The pirc is lower than the Owens, which is barely sound, and the st. george, which barely accomplishes anything?

This is definitely the strangest ranking I've ever seen, but maybe, just maybe, not the worst

I just hate e5 and pirc seems boring

1. What's wrong with e5?

2. The Pirc is not boring at all. It's one of the most sharp, risky, and aggressive defenses to e4

the pirc is extremely risky and i would take white every game

the austrian attack is just too strong of an opening choice for white and he easily holds an advantage

this is just the main line tho, white has a million other options that i can play and still hold a good advantage

i mean yeah a few moves in looks great for white... however, the entire opening is done on the basis of giving up center control and letting white basically have everything and then launching a huge counter attack back into the center.

When you look at an opening and then look at the most aggressive variation for white and pick white its because black played an anti-confrontational opening in order to counter attack later... you picked the austrian attack which is literally the most confrontational response, and then saying to yourself "I see all these ways to attack white has. I like white in this postion." however, you also need to understand that black is going to have a lot of ways to pick up tempo later, you are going to develop pieces to then later need to use them in a trade to stay even in points but black is able to use undeveloped pieces in that same trade. your diagonals around the king are open. your f3 pawn is not were you would want it to be, thus your king side is a little weaker while blacks is about as strong as it can get. Please castle queen side cause like I said blacks king is pretty safe and that pawn storm is gonna be difficult to deal with.

Point is you can't pick the most aggressive line against a setup based defense, and say whites better because look at all those attacking opportunities... Because I want you to really ask yourself how many of those opportunities are really that scary, because just about all of those lines you looking at black can just trade and simplify if they are not comfortable playing them.

Ill take a nuke over a thousand rock filled slingshots any day of the week please...

show blacks ¨big counterattack¨ in the Bb5+ line in the pirc that i posted

AngryPuffer
d4iscrazy wrote:
AngryPuffer wrote:
JohnyShowtime wrote:
AngryPuffer wrote:
PotatoesAndChess wrote:
lassus_dinnao wrote:
PotatoesAndChess написал:
lassus_dinnao wrote:

1. Sicilian

2. French

3. Caro-kann

4. Modern

5. Nimzowitch

6. Scandinavian

7. Owens

8. e5

9. St.George

10. Pirc

11. Alekhine

12. The BOOOORG

13. Duras

14. Barnes

15. bad

Ok wow that is the weirdest list I've ever seen

Sicilian at one is reasonable and French and Caro up there is good, but e5, the top computer move, the number two move in the master database, the most concrete, objectively good, and resistant defense, at number EIGHT?!

apparently the duras gambit, losing a pawn and severely weakening your king, is less bad than h6, which does nothing but at least slightly improves your position

The pirc is lower than the Owens, which is barely sound, and the st. george, which barely accomplishes anything?

This is definitely the strangest ranking I've ever seen, but maybe, just maybe, not the worst

I just hate e5 and pirc seems boring

1. What's wrong with e5?

2. The Pirc is not boring at all. It's one of the most sharp, risky, and aggressive defenses to e4

the pirc is extremely risky and i would take white every game

the austrian attack is just too strong of an opening choice for white and he easily holds an advantage

this is just the main line tho, white has a million other options that i can play and still hold a good advantage

i mean yeah a few moves in looks great for white... however, the entire opening is done on the basis of giving up center control and letting white basically have everything and then launching a huge counter attack back into the center.

When you look at an opening and then look at the most aggressive variation for white and pick white its because black played an anti-confrontational opening in order to counter attack later... you picked the austrian attack which is literally the most confrontational response, and then saying to yourself "I see all these ways to attack white has. I like white in this postion." however, you also need to understand that black is going to have a lot of ways to pick up tempo later, you are going to develop pieces to then later need to use them in a trade to stay even in points but black is able to use undeveloped pieces in that same trade. your diagonals around the king are open. your f3 pawn is not were you would want it to be, thus your king side is a little weaker while blacks is about as strong as it can get. Please castle queen side cause like I said blacks king is pretty safe and that pawn storm is gonna be difficult to deal with.

Point is you can't pick the most aggressive line against a setup based defense, and say whites better because look at all those attacking opportunities... Because I want you to really ask yourself how many of those opportunities are really that scary, because just about all of those lines you looking at black can just trade and simplify if they are not comfortable playing them.

Ill take a nuke over a thousand rock filled slingshots any day of the week please...

show blacks ¨big counterattack¨ in the Bb5+ line in the pirc that i posted

i know your trying to make this dude who claims black gets a big counterattack look stupid but thats not even the Bb5+ line

JohnyShowtime
AngryPuffer wrote:
d4iscrazy wrote:
AngryPuffer wrote:
JohnyShowtime wrote:
AngryPuffer wrote:
PotatoesAndChess wrote:
lassus_dinnao wrote:
PotatoesAndChess написал:
lassus_dinnao wrote:

1. Sicilian

2. French

3. Caro-kann

4. Modern

5. Nimzowitch

6. Scandinavian

7. Owens

8. e5

9. St.George

10. Pirc

11. Alekhine

12. The BOOOORG

13. Duras

14. Barnes

15. bad

Ok wow that is the weirdest list I've ever seen

Sicilian at one is reasonable and French and Caro up there is good, but e5, the top computer move, the number two move in the master database, the most concrete, objectively good, and resistant defense, at number EIGHT?!

apparently the duras gambit, losing a pawn and severely weakening your king, is less bad than h6, which does nothing but at least slightly improves your position

The pirc is lower than the Owens, which is barely sound, and the st. george, which barely accomplishes anything?

This is definitely the strangest ranking I've ever seen, but maybe, just maybe, not the worst

I just hate e5 and pirc seems boring

1. What's wrong with e5?

2. The Pirc is not boring at all. It's one of the most sharp, risky, and aggressive defenses to e4

the pirc is extremely risky and i would take white every game

the austrian attack is just too strong of an opening choice for white and he easily holds an advantage

this is just the main line tho, white has a million other options that i can play and still hold a good advantage

i mean yeah a few moves in looks great for white... however, the entire opening is done on the basis of giving up center control and letting white basically have everything and then launching a huge counter attack back into the center.

When you look at an opening and then look at the most aggressive variation for white and pick white its because black played an anti-confrontational opening in order to counter attack later... you picked the austrian attack which is literally the most confrontational response, and then saying to yourself "I see all these ways to attack white has. I like white in this postion." however, you also need to understand that black is going to have a lot of ways to pick up tempo later, you are going to develop pieces to then later need to use them in a trade to stay even in points but black is able to use undeveloped pieces in that same trade. your diagonals around the king are open. your f3 pawn is not were you would want it to be, thus your king side is a little weaker while blacks is about as strong as it can get. Please castle queen side cause like I said blacks king is pretty safe and that pawn storm is gonna be difficult to deal with.

Point is you can't pick the most aggressive line against a setup based defense, and say whites better because look at all those attacking opportunities... Because I want you to really ask yourself how many of those opportunities are really that scary, because just about all of those lines you looking at black can just trade and simplify if they are not comfortable playing them.

Ill take a nuke over a thousand rock filled slingshots any day of the week please...

show blacks ¨big counterattack¨ in the Bb5+ line in the pirc that i posted

i know your trying to make this dude who claims black gets a big counterattack look stupid but thats not even the Bb5+ line

lol queen Qf1 just hangs the queen.