Scandinavian Richter V Wing gambit

Sorry, but in no way is Black equal after 4. Be2 Bxe2 5. Qxe2 Qxd5 6. Nf3 followed by c2-c4. In fact, White still has a typical edge due to his nice center.

Sorry @jengaias, but I'm really inclined to trust ThrillerFan on this one over you. Black really did nothing to make the position equal in the first game. He didn't even break with ... c5 or ... e5, and it's possible that Leko's play could be improved upon.

Secondly, I don't really believe that the 11... g5 move gives Black instant equality. You comment on the same move in the third game saying that it is too ambitious, and only five moves later you say that "White is struggling for equality" without giving any kind of improvement. Besides, Black is still the one who has to prove compensation for the pawn.

Thirdly, you seem to believe that all half-decent openings are equal and tell that to everyone who will or will not listen. I don't share that view, and personally, if Black has to walk such a narrow path in the Scandinavian to get a decent position, common sense would tell me that there is something subpar about the best handful of Scandi lines too, especially since "2... Nf6 is under a big theoretical cloud right now and still hasn't come back up" (Conquistador) and "2... Nf6 is objectively a second-rate move, handing White the advantage". Also, pretty much everyone believes that the Portugese is just about refuted, and one thing about refuted openings is that there is always a safer line which is still good for the opponent.

Lol Jen...Chill out.

It happens to be a fun of the Portuguese variation and owner of GM Smerdons book. " Smerdons Scandinavian ".

It is true that there is a so called " Correnspondence refutation " that is a computer line which is anti positional in every kind of human aspect , since it dictate to play several pawn moves and extend the pawn structure. One possible human inaccuracie and your game as Whites is under a doubt how sound it is. The proof of that is in elite chess none so far dared to play because of it impractical nature but the truth is an engine refutes the vadility of the opening with it.

....but there are other lines which promise White a comfortable middlegame when Blacks counterplay does not compensate the legend of the Scandinavian Portuguese. There is no refutation in practical terms either but a well booked White player can handle the Portuguese like a wild horse who is scared but not crazy.

The Portuguese is not refuted , although White has find a way to calm down it wild nature and play ball in familiar courts.

Even GM Smerdon, the strongest player who will touch the Portuguese, believes that it is just about refuted. IM pfren believes that at high levels, it is refuted. It is even very possible that this Rui Damaso believes that it is almost refuted and plays it because it gets him good results. It is possible to believe in a line while knowing that it is objectively bad.

    Secondly, there are plenty of serious articles that almost refute the Portuguese, like these: http://www.davidsmerdon.com/?p=1215

http://www.chesspub.com/cgi-bin/chess/YaBB.pl?num=1309336196

Even pfren's comments in this thread poke serious holes in the Portuguese against any of White's four main moves: https://www.chess.com/forum/view/chess-openings/is-the-portuguese-gambit-playable?page=3

So yes, I fail to see how Black is equal in an opening where by move four he has already played at least one move which is just bad.

Lastly, there is an important distinction between the Berlin and the Portuguese. Before Kramnik championed the Berlin, people thought that Black was just struggling for a draw. The Portuguese is seen as "complete garbage" by many strong players in GM Smerdon's own words. No one at the top levels has championed it yet and the assessment of "almost refuted" has not really changed. There is no real reason why the Semi-Tarrasch would be bad, because Black has not done anything wrong. There were just many positions thought to be unpleasant for Black which Kramnik showed to be fine.

But in the Portuguese, even in the 4. Be2 line, Black is forced to develop one of his opponent's pieces, which clearly is not right, and I challenge you to find one titled player who doesn't play the Portuguese who says that 4. f3 Bf5 5. g4 isn't strong.

So, yes, I would argue that the Portuguese is "half-descent" at best, because although 4. Be2 is a good way to avoid home preparation where White can still push for an advantage, White has far better lines in which no sane person would call the position equal or even a slight advantage for White.

Get off your high horse, jengaias, or the misguided "crowd" of "internet patzers" rated anywhere from 1400 to 2500 will push you off.

As far for the games examples are outdated in contrast to the modern theory , which prefers to respond Bg4 with Nf3 and Nc6 with 0-0 and c3. White is no rush to kick the Queen with c4. What he wants is to complete development, control the d file and the e5 pawn break and progressively establish a space advantage on the Queenside. Is that enough for a win? No, but is a dictate of play.

Chesster3145 , you are typing bullshit. Don't use words that GM Smerdon never said about...

Before couple of Months Baskaran Adhiban employed the Portuguese defense against Carlsen and he had a comfortable game. The Portuguese variation in terms of human play it's a perfectly sound opening.

Much more than the London system or the dreadful Moskow variation of the Sicilian Bb5.

 So predictable lol

I actually happen to agree that Be2 can't be much against the Portuguese. But still reading/watching this thread for entertainment purposes

The general master statistics W/D/L=45%/24%/31% in 852 games refutes the statement that Scandinavian Portuguese is "almost refuted". Though it's clearly favorable for white.

Why 4. Be2 when 4. f3 and 4. Bb5+ looks stronger?

 This is the so called " correnspondence " refutation.

Well, indeed, this 5...Bg6 line doesn't seem to be good for black. So, black should retreat 4...Bc8 or 5...Bc8. It's kinda silly.

But 7. Nc3 might be also suboptimal and immediate 7. g5 could be stronger.

My conclusion is that without retreat Bc8, black has indeed serious problems close to the refutation of Portuguese.

I would actually argue that the "Correspondence Refutation" isn't that tough to play. Unless Black retreats with ... Bc8, White wins material quite quickly.

Actually the game I posted was the OTB version of the refutation between humans. The real refutation was played in Summer 2015 from Stockfish 6 vs Stockfish 6 and its included in GM Smerdon's book. Unfortunately my religion does not allow me to post a game played by two machines but I will tell that the black silicon played 6...c6 instead of 6...e6 and after g4 Nfd7 dxc is a very important move. White follows with Bf4 and the initiative is clear enough.

 jengaias: It seems to me that white has not only an additional pawn but the initiative too.

Come on, don't be such a radical anti-engine extremist! As a reward, U can get one day a latex girl with Stockfish X in the place of her brains!

Actually not-so-comfortable. The problem for white in all those 3 games is the "natural" move 11.h3, which allows Black the dangerous ...0-0-0, Rhg8/g5 etc plan. White can do without h2-h3 ATM, and play something like 11.Rd1.

White can safely insert h2-h3 AFTER Black has castled short.

4.Be2 is "lame", yet it does give white a small advantage. I do think Black can equalize (after careful analysis), but the way isn't obvious at all.

Yes, and no. The refutation is the f3/g4/c4 line, which theoretically gives white a very large advantage, but it's not easy to handle properly ( many good pawn moves are still pawn moves, white has to develop a few pieces sometime!).

Nothing it loses.. The engines in their game made a draw, but the thing is that it's not easy for Black to develop he's dark square Bishop and castle, not the material deficit count much. After 6...c6 7.Nc3! cxd5 8.g5 Nfd7 9.cxd5 it's a very important move. Black follows with Na6 and then has to find how to develop the dark square Bishop and castles quickly , so to be able attack Whites isolated pawn chains. In practice it's difficult because White can apply pressure finding tempi. Black has to break with e6 and White needs to find ...lets say five computer moves to keep the initiative.

It's a variation that you cant make conclusions about it evaluation because the correct moves both players need to find it's not natural humans.