Sicilian: problems with d6 pawn

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Avatar of Kinnmark

If you look at example above, you can see what's the "tipical" position in my games. d-pawn is, for example, not supported by black bishop, which probably should be. 

After some moves position gets like this:

 

What should I (black in this case) do to prevent this or just to avoid bigger losses. I still want/like to play e5 (not french version - e6).

Avatar of NajdorfDefense

Shouldn't you be counterattacking down the C-file instead of tying 3 heavy pieces down to a backwards pawn? And your Knight should not be traded off, it should be resting beautifully on d4 in that pawn structure - it will take White at least 4 moves to attack it with his knight, by which time you've invaded the C file.

If he plays c3, then he's created his own Q-side weaknesses, and if your heavy pieces are on the C-file, he can't play that to his advantage anyway.

Also, why did you exchange your good bishop for his very bad one??

Avatar of gmclor

When I play Sicilian, I usually end up with e6 and d6 pawns right next to each other - in other words, I don't do e5 as you've shown. Also, I often find my queen on c7. Also, the a6, b5 structure is important to keep white's bishop and knight off the queen side... It hasn't been an issue for me - check out my games as black, they've all been Sicilian lately.

Avatar of netzach

Yes... we need the full-games posted here before constructive-help could be offered.

Avatar of pfren

In the first diagram, Black is slightly better: He can castle fast, white is underdeveloped, the a3 knight is temporarily offside...

So just castle, and engineer ...d5 break by ...Bb7, ...Ne7, ...Rfd8, whatever necessary. This can be sort-of-stopped only by an eventual c3-c4 (easier said than done), which opens a big hole on d4.

In the second diagram, Black is dead lost: pawn down, weak d6 pawn, no counterplay.

Verdict: Black played poorly the middlegame part. Why? Because he just copypasted the opening moves, without really undestanding the positional demands of the resulting (very good for him) position.

In a well known book, the Chelyabinsk (Sveshnikov) is called "the easiest Scilian", which is correct, to some extent. Being the easiest though does not mean that someone can move pieces aimlessly.

Avatar of mateologist
gmclor wrote:

When I play Sicilian, I usually end up with e6 and d6 pawns right next to each other - in other words, I don't do e5 as you've shown. Also, I often find my queen on c7. Also, the a6, b5 structure is important to keep white's bishop and knight off the queen side... It hasn't been an issue for me - check out my games as black, they've all been Sicilian lately.

That is the Nardjolf which is very solid , But against strong opponents you really need to be booked up on all the fine points because it is an ultra-sharp defence.   Cool

Avatar of Kinnmark

Sorry guys, I have no game (because all the game was played in "blitz mode" in real life & I have the game just about 3 hours in my mind (if it lasts ~ 35 moves). However, I'm usually not a pawn down, because I just put all attacking pieces and pawn structure. But I think I probably understood advices. 

Avatar of TonyH

Ok this is my feeling but one of the things thats odd to me about the Sveshnikov sicilian is that the standard sicilain ideas of playing ...d5 do not fit. Black's position is fine but the plans seem to revolve around ...f5 and quick kingside piece play. 

Avatar of netzach

Still cannot reference my games-database properly. 

In the two I do have played 5.Bg5 and 5.Nxc6

Your choice (5.Nc3) maybe the cause of your troubles. You probably played that with pre-conceived familiarity of sicilian-layout in opening moves. Truthfully if you want to be comfortable playing e4 & sicilian with white you may have a lot of theory to study/learn. Essentially it's not d6 itself that's causing you bad-positions.That is a feature of black's position in the sicilian defence.

Avatar of MSC157

What about this? Although it's Najdorf... 10.Nd5 leads to white d5-pawn...
http://www.chess.com/opening/eco/B92_Sicilian_Defense_Najdorf_Variation_Opocensky_Variation_Modern_Line  

Avatar of Pawnpusher3

You don't take with the queen. You take with the f pawn.

Avatar of Helzeth

first of all, take with f pawn

second, it's the godamn sveshnikov, youll have to accept some sort of russian sacrafice for your central counterplay

 

if you want a solid d6 pawn stick to taimanov, schvenigen, pausel, kan, so many variations you can go

Avatar of Pawnpusher3

You can play a najdorf with e6 too

Avatar of pfren

Nah, if you are afraid of a backward d6 pawn, then the only Sicilian you could afford is playing the Dragon. No d6 backward pawn, the only slight risk is getting mated down the h-file. Tongue out

Avatar of Helzeth
pfren wrote:

Nah, if you are afraid of a backward d6 pawn, then the only Sicilian you could afford is playing the Dragon. No d6 backward pawn, the only slight risk is getting mated down the h-file. 

the only really backward d6 pawn system one has to worry about in the taimanov is nb5 bf4 where black scores incredibly well according to my database and I have absolutely no problems with it. Be a man, be russian. CHALLANGE THEM WITH TAIMANOV.

Avatar of Pawnpusher3

What's the taimanov? I haven't heard of it before this forum. Must be rather uncommon or known by another name

Avatar of Helzeth
 
white can force the d6 pawn weaking with nb5 d6 bf4 leading to the diagram position. It's easy to play though in my experience



Avatar of TonyH

ya dont be afraid of any sicilain really, They are all good and will expand your knowledge base

Avatar of Pawnpusher3

Yes, I have played this. I called it a Franco sicilian

Avatar of finalunpurez

If u dont like a backward pawn, play the hedgehog pawn structure?