USCF OTB: How Booked Up are Players from 1400-1799? 1800-2100?
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I sometimes play like I'm rated 2000+ or like a 1100 and everywhere in between... How is this possible?
SeniorPatzer wrote:
timonypumba wrote:
To keep things short and sweet, I would like to add from my own experience that kids nowadays are very booked up regardless their strength. They just memorize everything!
Fears validated!! Lol!
True, but not entirely relevant. In weekend swisses, I usually play someone in the 1800-2100 range for the first 1 or 2 rounds, before getting to players 2300+. It is true that most of these players are kids. And it is true they're booked up. BUT, they don't actually understand the openings they play. Sure, they've memorized lines like a bunch of robots, but beyond that they don't know what they're doing. I don't know who's coaching these kids, but they're doing a bad job. I usually have a positionally won game by move 10-15. And not because I'm more booked up. The point is, I wouldn't worry too much about how booked up the kids are these days. Just work on your chess - all three phases of the game.
Jul 8, 2017
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#24
chuddog wrote:
SeniorPatzer wrote:
timonypumba wrote:
To keep things short and sweet, I would like to add from my own experience that kids nowadays are very booked up regardless their strength. They just memorize everything!
Fears validated!! Lol!
True, but not entirely relevant. In weekend swisses, I usually play someone in the 1800-2100 range for the first 1 or 2 rounds, before getting to players 2300+. It is true that most of these players are kids. And it is true they're booked up. BUT, they don't actually understand the openings they play. Sure, they've memorized lines like a bunch of robots, but beyond that they don't know what they're doing. I don't know who's coaching these kids, but they're doing a bad job. I usually have a positionally won game by move 10-15. And not because I'm more booked up. The point is, I wouldn't worry too much about how booked up the kids are these days. Just work on your chess - all three phases of the game.
Another fine post, Mr. Chudnovsky. Listen to him, Daniel; as a senior master he knows of what he speaks. Understand the opening you choose and the transition into the middlegame, which a lot of these kids surely don't do; they do what's popular: memorize openings to make themselves look good. It's no coincidence that Tarrasch began with the ending in his book The Game of Chess.
Jul 8, 2017
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#25
Most players under 2000 are NOT so booked up, especially under 1800. Some of them memorize lines 15 moves deep for several variations, but if you play an early move that is not in their book, they often don't have a good plan.
A national master who came to teach the very successful high school chess team I coach was asked by one of my kids, "What chess openings do you like best?" His answer was, "The only thing I want out of the openings is to get to a playable middle game."
He was not worried about being booked-up as much as he was worried about being able to see a plan for the middlegame.
Jul 8, 2017
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#26
As a former A player, now a confirmed B player, that is trying to scrape my way back to A, and hopefully Expert. I can tell you this...IMO, as long as you follow opening principles, study tactics, and just study in general you will be fine. Openings are the last thing that will cause you to lose a game.
I think the answer can't be definitive, it really depends on the player. There are players I've met at above 2200 that don't know anything about openings, but their ignorance is offset by their brilliant tactical play and positional understanding. Then, there are players below 1600 that aren't great in any regard, but they've simply memorized countless lines, know all the traps and can catch a less prepared, but more skillful, player off-guard.
So, for a given rating, say, 1900, they will be both extremely booked up and completely oblivious to openings people. Opening knowledge is only one of the components of one's strength, and, say, a brilliant player like Philidor could play extremely well in the conditions of almost complete absence of any chess materials.
Jul 9, 2017
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#28
SeniorPatzer wrote:
I know there's a range, but I'm wondering if there's a large majority of players who are booked up. I suppose I should define what this patzer means by "Booked Up." A Booked Up player is someone who has is repertoire down to where he knows the first 6-10 moves of his opening and knows the ideas and themes of his opening choices.
I am at a distinct disadvantage to these booked up players when all I try to do is to try and reach a playable middle game.
Players in the lower range you're talking about will play the first 5-10 moves in book, yes.
Players in the higher range will be booked up 10-15 moves.
Players in the master range and higher will be booked up 15-20+ moves deep.
There are always exceptions, of course. But that's generally what you can expect.
For what it's worth, Carlsen uses the same approach as you—so you're in good company.
SeniorPatzer wrote:
... I "retired" from OTB about 30 years ago ... I never studied openings. (Lines after lines of Figurine Algebraic Notation just make me want to throw up.) ... I'm wondering how Booked up today's players are. ... A Booked Up player is someone who has is repertoire down to where he knows the first 6-10 moves of his opening and knows the ideas and themes of his opening choices. ...
I don't know the details, but, in the last 30 years, I think it has become easier to be booked-up. For one thing, various sorts of software aids have become available. (I think one of them was even called Book Up.) Perhaps because of competition from software, book publication seems to have come to place a greater emphasis on explaining ideas and stuff. Might be a good idea to keep that in mind when choosing books to consult now.
Jul 10, 2017
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#30
I just broke 2000 US Chess, in fact I just made a blog on the tournament that I broke it in: You can find it here
But about the openings, my opinion is that it doesn't matter hardly at all. As a 1700 player, you pretty much know the basics of every opening, and you can survive on that knowledge alone. Even in the sharpest lines of Sicilians, I'm still able to do fine against non-masters. In fact, I'd say that it isn't until you're master that you need to study openings. Up until that point, you need to work on not blundering, not your opening preparation.
"It is important for club players to build up a suitable opening repertoire." - GM Artur Yusupov (2010)
"... Overall, I would advise most players to stick to a fairly limited range of openings, and not to worry about learning too much by heart. ..." - FM Steve Giddins (2008)
"... the average player only needs to know a limited amount about the openings he plays. Providing he understands the main aims of the opening, a few typical plans and a handful of basic variations, that is enough. ..." - FM Steve Giddins (2008)
SeniorPatzer wrote:
... I hate to bother such an esteemed author and coach as Dan Heisman, but if you really think he'll take the time to respond to pseudonymous on-line old patzer's worries about not being sufficiently booked up in the internet age of chess, I'll do it and ask him for his thoughts.
At least in the past, Dan Heisman has been willing to address questions directed to him. Here are three articles that have been mentioned in past discussions of these sorts of issues:
https://web.archive.org/web/20140626180930/http://www.chesscafe.com/text/heisman06.pdf
https://web.archive.org/web/20140627023735/http://www.chesscafe.com/text/heisman15.pdf
https://web.archive.org/web/20140626225952/http://www.chesscafe.com/text/heisman37.pdf
SeniorPatzer wrote:
I don't know about players hovering around 1900. But honestly, I think I've probably spent about 5 hours total on my opening repertoire.
Reason for the Question: I "retired" from OTB about 30 years ago with a 1762 USCF OTB rating. I am planning to return to OTB play, possibly the latter half of this year. Obviously, I am way over-rated. I don't even know how I got to 1762 since I never studied openings. (Lines after lines of Figurine Algebraic Notation just make me want to throw up.)
Now that I've "re-discovered" chess at an age where Garry Kasparov and Yasser Seirawan have retired (my age co-horts), and yet I want to play! again, I'm wondering how Booked up today's players are.
For the USCF commenters who still play rated OTB events, how booked up are players in the 1400-1799 range? From 1800-2100 range? I know I'm gonna drop rating points knocking the rust off, but I don't want to hemorrhage them like a bleeding trauma victim either.
I know there's a range, but I'm wondering if there's a large majority of players who are booked up. I suppose I should define what this patzer means by "Booked Up." A Booked Up player is someone who has is repertoire down to where he knows the first 6-10 moves of his opening and knows the ideas and themes of his opening choices.
I am at a distinct disadvantage to these booked up players when all I try to do is to try and reach a playable middle game.
Jul 11, 2017
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#34
Joseph_Truelson wrote:
In fact, I'd say that it isn't until you're master that you need to study openings. Up until that point, you need to work on not blundering, not your opening preparation.
Agreed.
"Every now and then someone advances the idea that one may gain success in chess by using shortcuts. 'Chess is 99% tactics' - proclaims one expert, suggesting that strategic understanding is overrated; 'Improvement in chess is all about opening knowledge' - declares another. A third self-appointed authority asserts that a thorough knowledge of endings is the key to becoming a master; while his expert-friend is puzzled by the mere thought that a player can achieve anything at all without championing pawn structures.
To me, such statements seem futile. You can't hope to gain mastery of any subject by specializing in only parts of it. A complete player must master a complete game ..." - FM Amatzia Avni (2008)
@SeniorPatzer, Kasparov is coming out of retirement
JuergenWerner wrote:
@SeniorPatzer, Kasparov is coming out of retirement
Yes, I am quite excited by this prospect. I have silly dreams and hopes for his comeback.
I'm a former Bobby Fischer man, and it's the great Kasparov who managed to dethrone him from my personal all time great list.
NMinSixMonths wrote:
I'm not booked up at all. Usually when I see something weird out of the opening I just get an overwhelming urge to defend Caissa's honor and scourge the offending scum from the annals of chess history.
I have been following your "Tactics Suck" thread with great interest. You are going to be studying openings much more now, if I recall correctly.
Jul 12, 2017
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#39
The 1700 to 2000 players I've played OTB in the last 5 years are mostly booked up to at least 5 moves into most common openings....it varies with the person, some of the ones that have to study harder to maintain their rating are booked up 10 moves or so in in most common openings (Sicilian, Ruy, Pirc, French, Italian, Caro, etc...). I have played many players that have played continually a long time (some up to 50 years!) and they pretty much universally said that it is much harder now to maintain a high rating than it used to be....they have to study harder and know more.
universityofpawns wrote:
I have played many players that have played continually a long time (some up to 50 years!) and they pretty much universally said that it is much harder now to maintain a high rating than it used to be....they have to study harder and know more.
Thanks for this confirmation. I could get away with not knowing openings 30 years ago. Not so much today. Plus everybody studies tactics.
After a 17 year layoff (1998-2015), I started playing OTB again. One thing I noticed was that my openings were not good enough to compete against almost anyone over 1800. It seems everyone was booked up well past anything I was playing. However, I still did OK. Openings to me are just a starting point to get a playable middle game. It did not seem to me that players today are stronger tactically. I made comebacks in numerous games by my tactical play, even against some masters. That being said, I am working on openings now so that I can do better.
Finally, a voice of reason. Yes, work on your openings, but they are not the magic elixir everyone thinks they are. Here's the truth of it from Dan Hesiman, which I copied from one of his Novice Nooks.
********
Here is another opening “meta-principle” that also needs to be emphasized:
While almost any opening is good if you know it, the better known and sharper an opening is, the more you need to know specific lines and traps. For example, playing a main line of a sharp, well-known opening like the Sicilian Dragon or the Marshall Attack of the Ruy Lopez without any knowledge of the ideas and lines can be suicidal against most intermediate and strong players.
Conversely, the less tactical or less known an opening is, the more you can “wing it” on general principles. So, if you don’t want to study opening lines and just want to get by on general principles, that is OK, but don’t pick well-known sharp variations.