What is going on with the Mikenas Defense Lithuanian Variation?

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Avatar of GYG
ThrillerFan wrote:

1...e5?? And 2...d6?? Are both trash moves. Anything can beat the 1500 chumps, but the moment you start facing real opposition, like those with 1800+ over the board ratings, which can be anywhere from 1700 to 2200 on here, your results will suck.

I'm not a fan of 2...d6, but I play 1...e5 against 1.d4 every single game as black and commit absolute murder. All my opponents are higher than 2200 on here. Just this year I have beaten more than 100 titled players with 1.d4 e5.

my results would be much poorer with literally any other opening, 1...e5 is black's best way of getting an attacking game against d4.

If OP is playing OTB where people might see he likes the Hartbaub-Charlick and have time to prepare for him, it could be a risky choice. But if he wants a weapon to use in his online games, it will serve him well, no matter how strong his oponents are.

Avatar of darkunorthodox88
GYG wrote:
ThrillerFan wrote:

1...e5?? And 2...d6?? Are both trash moves. Anything can beat the 1500 chumps, but the moment you start facing real opposition, like those with 1800+ over the board ratings, which can be anywhere from 1700 to 2200 on here, your results will suck.

I'm not a fan of 2...d6, but I play 1...e5 against 1.d4 every single game as black and commit absolute murder. All my opponents are higher than 2200 on here. Just this year I have beaten more than 100 titled players with 1.d4 e5.

my results would be much poorer with literally any other opening, 1...e5 is black's best way of getting an attacking game against d4.

If OP is playing OTB where people might see he likes the Hartbaub-Charlick and have time to prepare for him, it could be a risky choice. But if he wants a weapon to use in his online games, it will serve him well, no matter how strong his oponents are.

then you playing the wrong opponents period

Avatar of gik-tally

my understanding is grunfeld is a POSITIONAL system and if I remember correctly, it involves fianchettos too. NO EFFING WAY! I despise fianchettos!

nothing wrong with the englund hartlaub/charlick AT ALL! I'm DESTROYING opponents 2:1 with it! I've never been happier. I will live my ENTIRE chess life by TACTICS. that's what I do, that's what I understand. I refuse to play an opening that isn't tactics based.

I'm STILL despising the scandinavian... mostly because of 2.e5 and 3.d4, but all the rest of it is pretty freakin' toothless. If it weren't for the move order nightmare that it is, I'd be playing the rousseau gambit already.

I mean look at my STATS!

losing stats slav-walling (and I've been playing the stonewall for almost 2 decades and played it as attack too before switching to 1.e4 and getting into my kind of games

in just 27 games with minimal study, I'm destroying opponents 2 to 1 and somehow you see that as BAD?! how does that work?

the bottom line is I used to DREAM EXACTLY of sacking my 2 center pawns to open the center and have strong pressuring development and the charlick delivers the goods soooo good, I'm married to it! i play chess for loud brash tactics and double edged positions. you keep believing GM hype about GM results in GM main lines, but here in the REAL WORLD, gambiteers OWN the opposition.

I don't see myself ever getting over 2000, and even if I did, then I'd just have to play my gambits that much better. I'm not going to give them up EVER! It's the REASON I play chess! My PTSD gets triggered when I'm forced to play black 3x in a row or when everyone I face is a hypermodern, longing to get my tactics on. the only way to do that is with development and mobility.

The hartlaub charlick is soooo much funner than stonewalling, even when the games go on long (I hate that) because I'm finding tools to pressure and counter with like I could never trapped behind pawns.

Avatar of gik-tally

"sound openings" SUCK! THEY'RE TOOTHLESS!

Avatar of GYG
1983B-Boy wrote:

but here in the REAL WORLD, gambiteers OWN the opposition.

^^ this

I hear the same narrative all the time from gambit naysayers.

The 1600s say "those gambits work against 1400s, but once you start to play 1800s you'll need to learn a real opening"

The 2000s say "those gambits work against 1800s, but once you start to play masters you'll need to learn a real opening"

blah blah blah

The reality is, at least in online chess, dubious gambits work unbelievably well at every single level.

Avatar of gik-tally

Here's me beating an 1866 in 19 moves in the smith morra GAMBIT DELINED (generally a nightmare for me)

an 1838 in 11

i beat an 1895 in the falkbeer counter gambit (I do better than the stats in this line)

and here's me beating an 1850 in 21 in the icelandic gambit, which I really never even played preferring the old fashioned scandinavian gambit which is NOT that tactical these days.
 
EVERYONE makes mistakes, and I actually find it EASIER to play higher rated opponents! it's the lower rated ones with their weird little "never seen that before" crap that trips me all up. that's why I'm having such a hard time clawing back to the 1700s, but the charlick and mieses are helping!
 
here's a "flawless grandmaster" getting spanked by a 1700 in the smith morra GAMBIT
 
bottom line as more than one GM has said, 
"It's harder to defend than attack"
 
I think too at the higher levels, players get lazy and ignore their gambit theory because no one else plays it anymore. the longer I play and study, the better I'll know MY theory. 
 
even at the GM level, king's gambit STILL kicks more butt!
at 30:50:20 in 237,359 games! by YOUR THEORY... black should be winning, but ISN'T!
 
other gambits don't fare as well, but you're talking about a level where centipawns actually matter when in real amateur games, it's COMMON for both players to make 5 point mistakes as the eval has a heart attack.
 
if you want to refute my charlick, please do BRING IT! I'll play it all day long, and by the end of the day, I'll be even better at it. I'm having SO MUCH stress relieved dropping that much of the stone wall
 
Avatar of gik-tally

charlick gambit stats from 1600-2000:

black isn't winning in ANY line. You should look at amateur games sometime. your preconceptions won't last long... ESPECIALLY sing lines where slalefish's favorite move has hideous losing stats whereas the -5 one is +10%.

no matter where my rating is, i don't want to play boring quiet games... EVER! that's why I quit TO BEGIN WITH!

even filterING 1600 & 1800 out for just 2000s...

and black STILL isn't winning shee! You are most wrong. are you going to be ANOTHER hard head who parrots GMs and ignores REALITY?! don't be that guy! numbers don't lie!

the "coolest" thing about the stats? FEW DRAWS! GM approved lines are soooo drawish! yuck!

Avatar of gik-tally

I'll be back to share my last charlick. It was effing 80 moves long, but it was ALWAYS exciting, trying to stick to the core themes of the opening and USE MY PIECES.

It was such a challenging game that I "good game"ed my opponent. (Stupid spell check had a nervous breakdown over that)

I underpromoted to a rook on purpose to avoid stalemate and should have just sacked my pawn and knight to get my opponent out in the open. I lose "won" games chasing kings around my own effing pawns. I despise pawns

Avatar of gik-tally

actually my very most recent charlick is another mini

I just love the wide open lanes to get my pieces where they need to be sooooooo much I don't miss those two pawns at all!

here's the 80 move slugfest

I probably should have just sacked the knight and pawn to get right to the end game. I waste lots of time and even some won games chasing kings around my own pawns and pieces. I also underpromoted to a rook on purpose. I don't promote to a queen unless I have to to minimize the stalemates I play for myself when I'm losing. It's more work, but far less margin for error, especially when time's low

I've never been happier than playing the charlick. it's the exact opposite of the stonewall and it lets me come up with attacks and counters all the time. it's a really good opening for berserkers like me.

Avatar of TheNameofNames
GYG wrote:
ThrillerFan wrote:

1...e5?? And 2...d6?? Are both trash moves. Anything can beat the 1500 chumps, but the moment you start facing real opposition, like those with 1800+ over the board ratings, which can be anywhere from 1700 to 2200 on here, your results will suck.

I'm not a fan of 2...d6, but I play 1...e5 against 1.d4 every single game as black and commit absolute murder. All my opponents are higher than 2200 on here. Just this year I have beaten more than 100 titled players with 1.d4 e5.

my results would be much poorer with literally any other opening, 1...e5 is black's best way of getting an attacking game against d4.

If OP is playing OTB where people might see he likes the Hartbaub-Charlick and have time to prepare for him, it could be a risky choice. But if he wants a weapon to use in his online games, it will serve him well, no matter how strong his oponents are.

how are you not a titled player?

Avatar of Ilampozhil25
1983B-Boy wrote:

"sound openings" SUCK! THEY'RE TOOTHLESS!

heres some stattage

lichess players database obv

1600-2000

ruy lopez: 51-44

kings gambit: 52-45

marshall gambit is a non issue given the a4 ANTI marshall at 52-43

how, you may ask?

positional aggression exists

you may hate it, but it exists and is perfectly good

Avatar of darkunorthodox88

hopefully the OP will decide to learn to play real chess one day instead of going for cheap development attacks. that stuff dont work on experts and above. Not with any level of consistency that is.

Avatar of Optimissed
1983B-Boy wrote:

having just started playing the englund gambit > hartlaub charlick variation 1.d4 e5!? 2.dxe5 d6 3.exd6 Bxd6, I need something to play against 2.c4. My instinct (and because I always wanted to play it to begin with) would be to play 2...d5 and transpose to the albin counter gambit, but it has terrible stats.

2...Nc6 3.d5 Nce7, on the other hand, has KILLER stats as UGLY (as in stonewallish straightjacket with pawns in the way in the center and a poorly placed knight) as it looks to me.

what's going on here? what is black's positional edge or his powerful plan to get such 41:56 stats in EITHER main line?

and black plays ...Ng6 after EITHER 4.Nc3 or 4.e4 and at least in the 4.e3 line, gets AT LEAST a 56% win rate no matter WHAT line he choses to play! there's some powerful mojo happening here.

i look at it, and I see a hideous closed center I'd want to sack a minor piece if I have to to open things up.

The Albin is alright at your level. You can ignore the stats and play it. But if you had any sense you'd play 1. d4 ...e5 2. c4 ?? ...ed.