What is the best black response to d4 e 4 and f 4 for below 1800?

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JairoPCJr

I wqnt just one good i want just the best black opening for each these in non prefessional game.

blueemu

It depends on your playing style.

For under-1800s, the "best" opening is the one that leads to positions in which you feel comfortable.

JairoPCJr

Okay.

But which one you could suggest me to study?

mvtjc

Just study the common lines so you won't get out of book easily, some for 1.e4 are Ruy Lopez, Italian game and Sicilian. For 1.d4 QGA, QGD, Indian defences for 1.f4 well just play 1. ...d5 Laughing

JairoPCJr

Thank you a lot

mvtjc

No ProbCool

royalbishop

Problem solved in less than 24 hrs.

Ahhhh forgot some.

What move in case of 1. c4 or 1. Nf3 or 1. b3 (Unorthodox) ?

ViktorHNielsen

1: e4 e5! leads to alot of pawn structures, which should be good for training.

1: d4 d5! 2: c4 e6! leads to QGD, which should be interesting I never actually played that, I used to play 2: . e5?!, which was interesting.

1: f4?! d5!, and try to fight for the dark squares, your opponent hands you the light ones.1

1: c4 e5! and try not to hand the white squares to white.

1: Nf3 Nf6 hopefully transposes to 1: d4 at a point.

1: b3 e5!, which should lead to an equal game. Just lock the bishop with d6.

1: h3?! e5!, and try for open games where white often has an edge. Because black plays white.

George1st

Below 1800 it doesn't matter which response you choose. The outcome will never be any different.

: )

TheGreatOogieBoogie
ViktorHNielsen wrote:

1: e4 e5! leads to alot of pawn structures, which should be good for training.

1: d4 d5! 2: c4 e6! leads to QGD, which should be interesting I never actually played that, I used to play 2: . e5?!, which was interesting.

1: f4?! d5!, and try to fight for the dark squares, your opponent hands you the light ones.1

1: c4 e5! and try not to hand the white squares to white.

1: Nf3 Nf6 hopefully transposes to 1: d4 at a point.

1: b3 e5!, which should lead to an equal game. Just lock the bishop with d6.

1: h3?! e5!, and try for open games where white often has an edge. Because black plays white.

Personally, against any unorthodox I'd likely play 1...e5, and maybe even reply like this vs. the English.  vs. 1.d4 I like the Dutch, especially Leningrad systems when they're viable, 1...c5 against 1.f4, and against 1.Nf3 the Dutch is tempting, but white has 2.d3 3.Nd2, preparing to blast open the center.  So against 1.Nf3 to avoid mainline 1...d5 lines 1...e6 might be good, 1...c5 is good also, but I don't like symmetrical Englishes from the black side.  1...Nf6 is a good response, and see what white does and try breaking symmetry from there (e.g., if white does a kingside fianchetto go with ...e6, or if white plays setups with e3 then kingside fianchetto). 

Oraoradeki

I'd say 1...d5 for all of them.

Against f4, you claim the centre faster while your opponent just weaken the Kingside for no reason.

Against e4, you avoid main lines of the e4e5 openings, the sicilian, and CaroKann and even avoid King's Indian Attack (never heard of a KIA against Scandianavian defense).

Against d4, White players find it harder to play against Queens gambit because they can't take the centre immidiately so you can hold them off easily.

You shouldn't try memorize openings. Use the time to do Tactics Trainer which will improve your play in the long run.

mvtjc

You know you're talking about the Bird's opening right?? 

TheGreatOogieBoogie
Oraoradeki wrote:

I'd say 1...d5 for all of them.

Against f4, you claim the centre faster while your opponent just weaken the Kingside for no reason.

Against e4, you avoid main lines of the e4e5 openings, the sicilian, and CaroKann and even avoid King's Indian Attack (never heard of a KIA against Scandianavian defense).

Against d4, White players find it harder to play against Queens gambit because they can't take the centre immidiately so you can hold them off easily.

You shouldn't try memorize openings. Use the time to do Tactics Trainer which will improve your play in the long run.

Good Bird players won't allow the weakened kingside to be exploitable.  And the reason it's played is for further control over e5 and an overall strategy of darksquare control.  Usually, b3-Bb2 follows in such systems. 

Oraoradeki

Yeah but how often do you face 1. f4?

Out of my 340 Online games in Chess.com, I've only faced 1.f4 once.

Even if it gives White control of e5, I still believe 1...d5 is the best defense against "Birds defense". 

mvtjc
Oraoradeki wrote:

Yeah but how often do you face 1. f4?

Out of my 340 Online games in Chess.com, I've only faced 1.f4 once.

Even if it gives White control of e5, I still believe 1...d5 is the best defense against "Birds defense". 

It's 'Bird's opening'  not defence, and noone is saying 1. ...d5 is bad, but who the hell are you to refute this opening which has been played for hundreds of years. And about your online games, we face different players, so your reasoning is bad and you should feel bad.

Bingat29

Learn from the GM's.  Play a lot of Carlsen, Anand and Capablanca.  You can access these games in chessgames.com.  Fischer and Kasparov are also interesting.  Look for the games that are annotated.

xxvalakixx
paulgottlieb wrote:

The best move under 1800 is the same as the best move over 1800. Good moves are good, bad moves are bad

You are wrong. There are a lot of openings, which is good at low level, but bad at higher, or highest level. There are openings, which is positionally not good (gives positional advantage for yor your opponent if he plays well) but playable in low level, because there the players dont know positional advantages/disadvantages. But because it gives positional disadvantages for you, it is not playable among GMs for example.

So, there is not best opening. 1.f4, which is Bird's opening, it is an incorrect opening. When you play with white, you are fighting for a little advantage, (and with black you want to be equal at least) but the bird's openings not gives any advantages for white. Black will have a very good game against the bird's opening (at least equal, but I think better) the first move against 1. f4 is 1. d5. I dont know the theory, look after it.
Against e4 there are many good openings, if you dont mind to play something closed, than I recommend you the french, or the caro kann, or simply just play e4-e5, but than you have to be prepared for the gambits.
Against d4, you can play everything, but I dont recommend gambits. Good can be slav, semi slav, QGA. Or you can use the indian defenses, if you want more counterplay.

capnpaco

There was a post in another thread about playing (possibly unsound) gambits at low levels, as they lead to sharper play which helps the player develop tactical skills. 

xxvalakixx

Ok, than some examples. GM's not playing gambits, for example they dont play King's gambit, e4-e5 d4 (I dont know it's name) or scotch gambit, and so on. It is because it takes risk, for nothing. But you can play it low level, with good success. And now, some positionally bad openings, which playable in low level.

etc. Theese are examples. You can play it in low level. of course I dont saying that, anyone should learn these openings, but if you have to play something new (Mainly, the coachs teaches for the students some e4-e5 openings, french, caro-kann, QGA, slav, semi slav) then theese can be a good weapon in low level, because it is totally unknown, and playable. (Because your opponent does not know the openings, and he has not got positional understanding for analyzing a completely unkown oppening in a tournament match.)
But you cant play it against a GM, even if he does not know the opening, he will outplay you easily, if you playing a positionally bad openings, even if GM vs GM.
You cant teach GM opening repertoire for a low level player, he wont understand them. Even 2000+ chess players has problems with positional playing.

ViktorHNielsen

The dutch is playable at GM level, Larsen introduced it with succes.

Just answer with normal developing moves, and beat your booked-up opponent with a very strong (or weak, who cares) novelty in move 5