What Is the Best defense to Ruy Lopez - Chess Forums

NubbyCheeseking

Mar 10, 2020

0

#1

I usually play

Are there any better defenses?

NubbyCheeseking

Mar 10, 2020

0

#2

To Ruy Lopez?

GM 2bf41-0

Mar 10, 2020

0

#3

Magnus plays 3...g5!? with success in online blitz games.

An excellent source for further investigations in your line is Ruy Lopez: A Guide for Black

2Bf41-0

jibraat

Mar 10, 2020

0

#4

The best to e4 openning from my point of view, sicilian, scandinavian.

kindaspongey

Mar 10, 2020

0

#5

Possibly helpful:
Starting Out: Ruy Lopez by John Shaw (2003)
https://web.archive.org/web/20140627024240/http://www.chesscafe.com/text/hansen53.pdf

First Steps: 1 e4 e5

https://www.newinchess.com/media/wysiwyg/product_pdf/7790.pdf

The Schliemann Defence: Move by Move

https://www.newinchess.com/media/wysiwyg/product_pdf/7797.pdf

The Modernized Berlin Wall Defense

https://www.newinchess.com/media/wysiwyg/product_pdf/8228.pdf

The Berlin Defence Unraveled

https://www.newinchess.com/media/wysiwyg/product_pdf/9048.pdf

IM pfren

Mar 11, 2020

0

#6

The Steinitz is slightly passive, but not bad at all.

I think the correct way to play it is via the move order 3...Nf6 4.0-0 d6, since this sidesteps dangerous lines where white castles long.

Of course 4.0-0 isn't mandatory, but it is the most common move.

NikAri

Mar 18, 2020

0

#7

sicillian

BeatleFred

Mar 19, 2020

0

#8

I think the most interesting and sharpest reply is the Schliemann with 3... f5! and if 4) Nc3, then 4.. Nd4!

llamonade2

Mar 19, 2020

0

#9

BeatleFred wrote:

I think the most interesting and sharpest reply is the Schliemann with 3... f5! and if 4) Nc3, then 4.. Nd4!

The Schliemann was interesting to me until I found out about 4.Bxc6 5.Qe2 lines, which don't appeal to me.

llamonade2

Mar 19, 2020

0

#10

pfren wrote:

The Steinitz is slightly passive, but not bad at all.

I think the correct way to play it is via the move order 3...Nf6 4.0-0 d6, since this sidesteps dangerous lines where white castles long.

Of course 4.0-0 isn't mandatory, but it is the most common move.

What's your opinion on the delayed steinitz (3...a6 4.Ba4 d6). I usually develop the knight to g6.

The engine complains a little, but I think there are some interesting positions.

ThrillerFan

Mar 19, 2020

0

#11

llamonade2 wrote:

pfren wrote:

The Steinitz is slightly passive, but not bad at all.

I think the correct way to play it is via the move order 3...Nf6 4.0-0 d6, since this sidesteps dangerous lines where white castles long.

Of course 4.0-0 isn't mandatory, but it is the most common move.

What's your opinion on the delayed steinitz (3...a6 4.Ba4 d6). I usually develop the knight to g6.

The engine complains a little, but I think there are some interesting positions.

I do not think you can premeditate development.

A lot depends on White's 5th move. It has been about 5 years since I played it, but is the delayed Steinitz where the Siesta Gambit comes from? If memory serves me right, I seem to recall it being 5.c3 (where Nc3 is no longer possible) f5, but 5...f5 against other moves, like 5.O-O, is bad I seem to recall. Same goes for piece placement. You cannot just assume Ng6 against all white options on move 5 onwards.

It would be like me saying I always play 3...c5 in the French. Against the Tarrasch and Advance, that is best. Against 3 Nc3 it is bad and against 3.exd5 it is stupid.

llamonade2

Mar 19, 2020

0

#12

White's moves 5 and 6 almost always include c3 (either c3 and d4 or 0-0 and c3).

Either way my next two moves are almost always Bd7 and Ne7 followed by Ng6 Be7 0-0... maybe not one after the other I'm just talking in general.

Yes it depends on what white does, but Pfren is advocating committing to Nf6... not that this is a big deal, there are various setups black can do.

In any case I'm wondering about his opinion (or yours) on the delayed steinitz.

llamonade2

Mar 19, 2020

0

#13

As for f5, sometimes that's good, sometimes not so good. I wait on that decision for later. I don't play it very early.

SwimmerBill

Mar 19, 2020

0

#14

As with #11, I like the Schliemann too. Always leads to an intense and interesting game.

llamonade2

Mar 19, 2020

0

#15

Unless like #12 white opts to make it boring.

ThrillerFan

Mar 19, 2020

0

#16

llamonade2 wrote:

As for f5, sometimes that's good, sometimes not so good. I wait on that decision for later. I don't play it very early.

The reason for the early f5 is there is no way for White, at that moment only, to guard e4 with his Knight. If you wait until after d3 or d4, you waited too long. You either do it then or the f-pawn stays at home on f7.

The problem with 5.O-O f5? Is that now instead of c3, White will play Nc3 (similar to what he does in the Schliemann), which is part of the reason I find the Siesta more sound than the Schliemann.

You sound like you have preconceived places for each piece and that is a major problem. It is also the reason why many London System players fail, because they play it just to have predetermined moves so they do not have to think for 10 moves. If you want to play the London Successfully, you have to actually understand the nuances of each move by Black, just like defending the Ruy, it cannot be defended blindly with predetermined moves. There are major differences between c3 and Nc3, d4 before O-O and d4 after O-O. d4 with c3 and d4 without c3. d4 with h3 and d4 without h3. Playing d3 instead of d4. Why playing d3 shows no need for h3, and why ...Bg4 is useless when d3 is played instead of d4.

If you don't actually understand the reasoning behind each move, and just memorize or blindly put pieces on squares, ignoring White, you will lose!

llamonade2

Mar 19, 2020

0

#17

Obviously I don't just ignore what my opponent is doing, so lets talk lines.

For example

1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. Bb5 a6 4. Ba4 d6 5. c3 Bd7 6. d4 Nge7

Black's moves 5 and 6 are the most often played in my (old) database. It's also what I like to play in games. The engine complains a bit at first, but I don't mind the positions, and the engine usually calms down later.

So lets look at a different line where black is trying to be stubborn and play Ne7 even though it's not popular.

1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. Bb5 a6 4. Ba4 d6 5. O-O Bd7 6. d4 Nge7 7. d5 Nb8 8. c4
Ng6 9. Nc3 Be7

And the engine, as is typical, overestimates white's d5 move and thinks white is very good... but again, later it calms down and admits it's about equal.

NikAri

May 25, 2020

0

#18

I think it’s the fishing pole trap. It sacrifices the knight but delivers checkmate

Watch this

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qac6OFDHdTs

Tanyeli

May 25, 2020

0

#19

It highly depends what kind of a player are you - aggressive or defensive. D6 can lead to a quite solid game without much sharpness. The most common line instead of d6 is a6. You want to kick that bishop away from b5, so you could later play b5, so white can't capture the knight on c6. If you play a6 later, white might capture c6, which leads to a different game. Of course he can capture knight on c6 after 3.... a6, but that isn't consider best for white, but it is still playable. Very interesting in my opinion is the Marshall attack (d5 is quite aggressive):

IM pfren

May 25, 2020

0

#20

This line is the sole reason the Classical defense (3...Bc5) to the Ruy Lopez is unpopular.

Black has the bishop pair, he has nice and easy development, but the e4 pawn is a chronic weakness.

Anyway, I think that Black should be equal in this line with proper play- so if somebody does not mind playing this, he can look at the Classical as an active, low-theory solution to the problem of meeting the Ruy.