What is the best opening after e4 e5 nf3 nc6 bc4 bc5?

Nicholas166

Dude!

rob_alpha

d3 

Max166

c3

 

Savage47
Max166 wrote:

B4????????

No, b4! 

Max166

yeah, actually b4 is good

SmyslovFan
kindaspongey wrote:
SmyslovFan wrote:
kindaspongey wrote:

"Actually the modern way to handle the d3 lines is like (1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Bc4 Bc5) 4.0-0 first, as white does not have a meaningful way to get something after 4.c3 Nf6 5.d3 0-0 6.0-0 d5!?" - IM pfren (December 13, 2017)

Pfren might have been right, but Kramnik didn't play 6.0-0. ...

Did Kasparov ever play 4 b4 ?

Of course, @Kindaspongey knows the answer to this question. Kasparov famously crushed Anand with the Evans Gambit in the Tal Memorial in 1995:

Anand was surprised, and chose Be7 rather than the main line with Ba5. He got a good game, but lost in the complications. 

Heraclitus stated that you can't stand in the same river twice. 

There's an old Russian saying: If you play the same move, it's not the same move. 

In other words, when Kasparov played the Evans against Anand, it was a huge surprise. He even made an advertisement where a kid studied the Evans Gambit to play against him in a simul and Kasparov went into a long think! 



It's been a long time since Kasparov surprised Anand. Today's elite players are usually better prepared for surprises, and are certainly well versed in the Kasparov-Anand game. The Evans Gambit will almost certainly catch out GMs in the future, but only as a surprise weapon. 

Most serious Class players who use Bc5 as a main repertoire choice will be well prepared to meet the Evans precisely because Kasparov won a brilliant game as White with it back in 1995. 

Kasparov won with the Evans. But don't think you can stand in the same river and catch a big fish the way Kasparov did. You'll have to find your own river.

I still think the best fishing is with the slightly less committal lines beginning with 4.c3/d3. There's more room for creativity in those lines nowadays. @Pfren's point about equality is probably true, but practically, I think 4.c3/d3 offers the best chance for a well-prepared player to win.

ghost_of_pushwood

Funny, I always thought Be7 was the main line...

Daybreak57
SmyslovFan wrote:

If you really want to learn how to play an opening, select ~50 games played by experts in the opening and play through them. Take about 10 minutes per game, asking questions as you go along. This first iteration is just to get a feel for the opening. 

Take a look at the questions you asked and see if you can answer them. Pay attention to the move orders used, and the dates of the games. Did the move order evolve over time, or has it been consistent? If the move order is more or less the same for ~20 or 30 years, there's probably a good reason for it. Experiment with different move orders against an engine and see if there's a flaw to other move orders. 

Ask more questions, take clear notes. 

When you've done that, take a look at some annotated games and see what you missed. 

 

At the very end of all that, go to an opening book and see what the variations are. You probably already know most of it, but that's the point! You will have learned more about the opening than is usually covered in an opening book. And the lines will make sense to you!

 

Caveat: This isn't a fast way to learn an opening, but you will learn the opening.

 

I will try this on certain openings!

kindaspongey

"... everyone is is different, so what works for one person may likely fail with another ..." - NM Dan Heisman (2002)
https://web.archive.org/web/20140627084053/http://www.chesscafe.com/text/heisman19.pdf

SmyslovFan
ghost_of_pushwood wrote:

Funny, I always thought Be7 was the main line...

According to the dB, Ba5 is played more often than Be7.

 

Added: I just checked my old (1981) ECO. Unzicker wrote the section on the Evans. He considers 5...Ba5 to be the main line. C51 is the intro to the Evans Accepted, and C52 focuses on 5...Ba5. As another example of not being able to step into the same river twice, in 2014 Nakamura played the Evans against Anand. Anand played 5...Ba5 and drew comfortably.

pfren

An easy (and a bit humorous) way to achieve equality against the Evans is 4...Bxb4 5.c3 Ba5 6.d4 b5!? (should we call this the Counter-Evans gambit?).

Savage47
pfren wrote:

An easy (and a bit humorous) way to achieve equality against the Evans is 4...Bxb4 5.c3 Ba5 6.d4 b5!? (should we call this the Counter-Evans gambit?).

7. Bxb5 Nxd4 8. Nxd4 exd4
9. O-O

I'm still okay with white here. 

 

pfren
Savage47 έγραψε:
pfren wrote:

An easy (and a bit humorous) way to achieve equality against the Evans is 4...Bxb4 5.c3 Ba5 6.d4 b5!? (should we call this the Counter-Evans gambit?).

7. Bxb5 Nxd4 8. Nxd4 exd4
9. O-O

I'm still okay with white here. 

 

 

Sure you are. Everyone is OK there.

 

 

checkmatemark04


Look at this game by Andersen!

ghost_of_pushwood
SmyslovFan wrote:
ghost_of_pushwood wrote:

Funny, I always thought Be7 was the main line...

According to the dB, Ba5 is played more often than Be7.

 

 

It certainly is ancient enough...

kindaspongey

"... The Evans Gambit is like a super-charged version of the Italian Game with 4 c3. White can attack quickly, it'ls fun to play and is an excellent choice for those who enjoy gambits. ..." - First Steps 1 e4 e5 by GM John Emms (2018)