c3
What is the best opening after e4 e5 nf3 nc6 bc4 bc5?
Sort:
yeah, actually b4 is good
May 15, 2019
0
#64
kindaspongey wrote:
SmyslovFan wrote:
kindaspongey wrote:
"Actually the modern way to handle the d3 lines is like (1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Bc4 Bc5) 4.0-0 first, as white does not have a meaningful way to get something after 4.c3 Nf6 5.d3 0-0 6.0-0 d5!?" - IM pfren (December 13, 2017)
Pfren might have been right, but Kramnik didn't play 6.0-0. ...
Did Kasparov ever play 4 b4 ?
Of course, @Kindaspongey knows the answer to this question. Kasparov famously crushed Anand with the Evans Gambit in the Tal Memorial in 1995:
Anand was surprised, and chose Be7 rather than the main line with Ba5. He got a good game, but lost in the complications.
Heraclitus stated that you can't stand in the same river twice.
There's an old Russian saying: If you play the same move, it's not the same move.
In other words, when Kasparov played the Evans against Anand, it was a huge surprise. He even made an advertisement where a kid studied the Evans Gambit to play against him in a simul and Kasparov went into a long think!
It's been a long time since Kasparov surprised Anand. Today's elite players are usually better prepared for surprises, and are certainly well versed in the Kasparov-Anand game. The Evans Gambit will almost certainly catch out GMs in the future, but only as a surprise weapon.
Most serious Class players who use Bc5 as a main repertoire choice will be well prepared to meet the Evans precisely because Kasparov won a brilliant game as White with it back in 1995.
Kasparov won with the Evans. But don't think you can stand in the same river and catch a big fish the way Kasparov did. You'll have to find your own river.
I still think the best fishing is with the slightly less committal lines beginning with 4.c3/d3. There's more room for creativity in those lines nowadays. @Pfren's point about equality is probably true, but practically, I think 4.c3/d3 offers the best chance for a well-prepared player to win.
May 15, 2019
0
#65
SmyslovFan wrote:
If you really want to learn how to play an opening, select ~50 games played by experts in the opening and play through them. Take about 10 minutes per game, asking questions as you go along. This first iteration is just to get a feel for the opening.
Take a look at the questions you asked and see if you can answer them. Pay attention to the move orders used, and the dates of the games. Did the move order evolve over time, or has it been consistent? If the move order is more or less the same for ~20 or 30 years, there's probably a good reason for it. Experiment with different move orders against an engine and see if there's a flaw to other move orders.
Ask more questions, take clear notes.
When you've done that, take a look at some annotated games and see what you missed.
At the very end of all that, go to an opening book and see what the variations are. You probably already know most of it, but that's the point! You will have learned more about the opening than is usually covered in an opening book. And the lines will make sense to you!
Caveat: This isn't a fast way to learn an opening, but you will learn the opening.
I will try this on certain openings!
"... everyone is is different, so what works for one person may likely fail with another ..." - NM Dan Heisman (2002)
https://web.archive.org/web/20140627084053/http://www.chesscafe.com/text/heisman19.pdf
May 15, 2019
0
#67
ghost_of_pushwood wrote:
Funny, I always thought Be7 was the main line...
According to the dB, Ba5 is played more often than Be7.
Added: I just checked my old (1981) ECO. Unzicker wrote the section on the Evans. He considers 5...Ba5 to be the main line. C51 is the intro to the Evans Accepted, and C52 focuses on 5...Ba5. As another example of not being able to step into the same river twice, in 2014 Nakamura played the Evans against Anand. Anand played 5...Ba5 and drew comfortably.
An easy (and a bit humorous) way to achieve equality against the Evans is 4...Bxb4 5.c3 Ba5 6.d4 b5!? (should we call this the Counter-Evans gambit?).
Savage47 έγραψε:
pfren wrote:
An easy (and a bit humorous) way to achieve equality against the Evans is 4...Bxb4 5.c3 Ba5 6.d4 b5!? (should we call this the Counter-Evans gambit?).
7. Bxb5 Nxd4 8. Nxd4 exd4
9. O-O
I'm still okay with white here.
Sure you are. Everyone is OK there.
"... The Evans Gambit is like a super-charged version of the Italian Game with 4 c3. White can attack quickly, it'ls fun to play and is an excellent choice for those who enjoy gambits. ..." - First Steps 1 e4 e5 by GM John Emms (2018)
The following book, intended for beginner-intermediate players (which I think is quite instructive for the target audience), provides introductory coverage of the Italian Game and the 4.c3/5.d4 variation....check the book's reviews on Amazon (including mine as 'RLBell')....
My First Chess Opening Repertoire for White by Vincent Moret...
https://www.amazon.com/First-Chess-Opening-Repertoire-White/dp/9056916335/ref=sr_1_1?crid=UYSWU7R3L86D&keywords=my+first+chess+opening+repertoire+for+white&qid=1562737762&s=books&sprefix=my+first+chess+openi%2Caps%2C188&sr=1-1
The following book provides detailed, comprehensive coverage, focusing on the 4.c3/5.d3 (i.e., not 5.d4) Italian Game....but it covers everything after 1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nf6 3.Bc4 ...
Winning With the Slow But Venomous Italian by Karsten Muller & Georgios Souleidis...
https://www.newinchess.com/media/wysiwyg/product_pdf/9037.pdf
Tim Harding on the Italian Game 4.c3/5.d4 variation....
The Giuoco Piano Revisited...
https://web.archive.org/web/20140626194828/http://www.chesscafe.com/text/kibitz118.pdf
Harding's article above features analysis of Jan Pinski's book on the topic....
Italian Game and Evans Gambit by Jan Pinski
https://www.amazon.com/Italian-Game-Evans-Gambit-Pinski/dp/185744373X/ref=sr_1_1?keywords=Jan+pinski&qid=1562734779&s=books&sr=1-1
Harding's follow-up article, this one being concerned with....
Evans Gambit Reloaded...
https://web.archive.org/web/20140627035946/http://www.chesscafe.com/text/kibitz119.pdf
a good/useful book on the topic...
The Great Evans Gambit Debate by Michael Rohde...
https://www.amazon.com/Great-Evans-Gambit-Debate/dp/0938650750/ref=sr_1_6?crid=19N7UOPLIEKKI&keywords=evans+gambit&qid=1562732883&s=books&sprefix=evans+gambit%2Caps%2C194&sr=1-6
Mihail Marin on the Evans Gambit.....from his book “Beating the Open Games”, (2nd ed.) 2008.....primarily from Black's point of view...
http://www.qualitychess.co.uk/ebooks/BTOG-2nd-edit-Evans-Gambit.pdf
RussBell wrote:
The following book ... provides introductory coverage of the Italian Game and the 4.c3/5.d3 variation....check the book's reviews on Amazon (including mine as 'RLBell')....
My First Chess Opening Repertoire for White by Vincent Moret...
https://www.amazon.com/First-Chess-Opening-Repertoire-White/dp/9056916335/ref=sr_1_1?crid=UYSWU7R3L86D&keywords=my+first+chess+opening+repertoire+for+white&qid=1562737762&s=books&sprefix=my+first+chess+openi%2Caps%2C188&sr=1-1 ...
"... In My First Opening Repertoire for White: A Ready-to-go Package for Ambitious Players ... Moret offers readers a set of recommendations that can be summarized as follows: White: 1.e4 e5 – Giuoco Piano, Möller Attack ..."
https://chessbookreviews.wordpress.com/tag/vincent-moret/
"... 5.d4!? At this point White can still change his plan and play the more modest 5.d3 an interesting variation ... which will not be covered in this book. ..." - Moret
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f41ZbPq9OpE
In my post above I had originally incorrectly attributed the author of the articles on the Italian Game and Evans Gambit to Dan Heisman. Heisman is the author of the Novice Nook column on ChessCafe. The specific articles I provided the links to are by Tim Harding in his Kibitzer column on ChessCafe. I have since edited/corrected the error in my post. My apologizes for any confusion it may have caused.
Both of these authors' columns and the articles cited are archived here...
https://web.archive.org/web/20140625052220/http://www.chesscafe.com/archives/archives.htm
By the way, both of these authors do an an excellent job of chess instruction, and are well worth checking out.
Jul 11, 2019
0
#75
While Dan Heisman is an excellent coach, I much prefer Tim Harding's opening analysis.
RussBell wrote:
The following book, intended for beginner-intermediate players ..., provides introductory coverage of the Italian Game and the 4.c3/5.d3 variation.... ...
My First Chess Opening Repertoire for White by Vincent Moret... ...
Going to fix this?
"... In My First Opening Repertoire for White: A Ready-to-go Package for Ambitious Players ... Moret offers readers a set of recommendations that can be summarized as follows: White: 1.e4 e5 – Giuoco Piano, Möller Attack ..."
https://chessbookreviews.wordpress.com/tag/vincent-moret/
"... 5.d4!? At this point White can still change his plan and play the more modest 5.d3 an interesting variation ... which will not be covered in this book. ..." - Moret
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f41ZbPq9OpE
kindaspongey wrote:
RussBell wrote:
The following book, intended for beginner-intermediate players ..., provides introductory coverage of the Italian Game and the 4.c3/5.d3 variation.... ...
My First Chess Opening Repertoire for White by Vincent Moret... ...
Going to fix this?
"... In My First Opening Repertoire for White: A Ready-to-go Package for Ambitious Players ... Moret offers readers a set of recommendations that can be summarized as follows: White: 1.e4 e5 – Giuoco Piano, Möller Attack ..."
https://chessbookreviews.wordpress.com/tag/vincent-moret/
"... 5.d4!? At this point White can still change his plan and play the more modest 5.d3 an interesting variation ... which will not be covered in this book. ..." - Moret
Done. 5.d4 it is. Thanks for catching the typo Spongey!
SmyslovFan wrote:
While Dan Heisman is an excellent coach, I much prefer Tim Harding's opening analysis.
Tim Harding is very thorough!
Jul 11, 2019
0
#79
Yeah, Tim Harding isn't just a better chess player, he's an old-school correspondence player who has tried out just about all of the lines he recommends in his published works in serious competition.
Tim Harding's books on the Evans Gambit.....useful to have if you play this opening....
Play the Evans Gambit by Tim Harding & Bernard Cafferty...
https://www.amazon.com/Play-Evans-Gambit-Tim-Harding/dp/1857441192/ref=sr_1_11?crid=1NO4F8G73RU4N&keywords=tim+harding+chess&qid=1562916858&s=books&sprefix=tim+harding%2Caps%2C204&sr=1-11
Evans Gambit and a System Vs. Two Knights' Defense by T. D. (Tim) Harding...
https://www.amazon.com/Evans-Gambit-System-Knights-Defense/dp/0875681948/ref=sr_1_1?keywords=Evans+Gambit+and+a+System&qid=1562917191&s=books&sr=1-1
d3