What Openings have Closed Centers?

I did not do any Category A or B labelling because I do not believe they are correct which is why I am having confusion.

I don't believe you can Categorize them like that.

Category A: Closed-Center Positions are likely to occur.

^^^ Their are no guarantees in chess. Which is why I used percentages to give you an idea of how often he may happen.

Category B: Closed-Center Positions will occur 100% of the time unless the opponent goes into a variation that is objectively inferior to the closed position. That is, the best option for the opponent is to go into a closed-center position.

^^^ The word Inferior is incorrect. Their are many playable lines in chess.

Example using the KID which is a black line. However, I will show it from white prespective.

As you can see from the 2 white lines I showed. White has space nothing wrong with whites position. Its playable from the white side and the black side. 10K+ games if not more from those 2 position's. I even showed you the mainline. Thats a very common way for white to play.

Now here is another one.

White still has space. Its another playable line. No inferior position. White has space so his position is never inferior.

Their is alot more as well. Some people play the London System against the KID.

Different e3 lines have been played. Than you got other side lines such as English or b3 lines. I play the KID against them as well. The KID can be played against anything other than 1.e4 pretty much.

So the mainline might be like an A but what about all the other line's. Their not a B maybe their a C.

That might be some helpful insight their. Its very dynamic the KID.

Old Indian's, some Philidor's and Chigorin Ruy Lopez sometimes closed up in a similar way to a Petrosian KID

Oh, thank gawd you asked that. I thought you were going to ask What Closings have Opened Centers....whew !

Thanks so much for your great explanation of Czech Benoni! I'll be sure to give it a try after my next tourney - I think it's the most closed-center position you can get as black , is that right??

@peskygnat: Thanks!

@Lola: Lol.

Black needs to have something prepared for when White doesn't play d5 in the Benoni. I think it's easier to play the French and stonewall because the French usually leads to closed positions and you can play 1.d4 e6 2.c4 f5 to avoid the anti-Dutch lines.

Interestingly, I do play the Stonewall. However, I don't play 1.d4 e6 because I don't like the French. I like the Classical, Tarrasch, and Advance Variations, but I'm not a fan of the exchange (from the black side, that is). Do you have any suggestions?

There is a Franco-Benoni with 1. d4 e6 2. e4 c5, but you have to accept that a Sicilian might result after 3. Nf3

Another option, though very unorthodox, would be to play something like a Modern/Hippopotamus (which many times can in a closed center like a French Advance, or KID)

http://www.chessgames.com/perl/chessgame?gid=1106734

I've always been skeptical, on principle, of the Hippo. Is it wise to play it? Would it be more prudent to play the Czech Benoni?

Also, if you don't mind, may you please illustrate the Old Indian.

It's probably not wise to play the Hippo if you don't enjoy defending cramped positions.

As for the Old Indian, I was referring to lines like the one in this game, covered in Chapter 2 of the New Old Indian book

http://chesstempo.com/gamedb/game/2583096

The Czech Benoni is such weak sauce.

How on earth can people suggest the Czech Benoni to TasmanianTiger.

Obviously, TasmanianTiger is looking for a very ultra solid line to play in tournaments.

I can not believe people are recommending the Czech Benoni and the Dutch.

Outragious!

Are you people trying to get TasmanianTiger killed in a chess game?

It is extremely obvious what TasmanianTiger should be playing.

Plain as the nose on our faces.

There are several lines:

• Queens Gambit Declined

• Slav

• Semi-Slav

• Nimzo-Indian

• Queens Indian

• Bogo-Indian

• Gruenfeld

How many grandmasters do you see bragging about beating Magnus Carlsen with the Czech Benoni?

Not very many! That weak sauce does not phase Magnus.

Caro Kann Advance variation. Super closed.

Player, what do you mean? I'm not a fan of solid positions - I prefer dynamic, attacking chess!

The reason why I like closed-center positions is becase of the dynamic and attacking possibilites which arise from it. For instance:

The same goes for the Botvinnik System. I like these closed-center openings so I get to pawn-storm / "piece-storm" one wing, usually the K-side. I don't like solidity, I like aggresivity, especially pawn storms. The Botvinnik System and Dutch Stonewall both suit my needs.

Basically, I'm trying to look for an equivelent opening [ equivelent to the Botvinnik System and Dutch Stonewall insofar as a pawn storm is acceptable ] for the Black side.

Already play that, but thanks.

Well Carlsen himself has played the Czech Benoni more than once, though not often. I wouldn't exactly say it doesn't please him.

Do you think the Czech Benoni is reliable / sound??

It's my main anti d4 system, but just about all I lately is 3 minute Blitz. Certainly there's a reason why it's not played more often. White has more space and obviously must be better. In practice though, at my level at least (I'm blitzing around the top of Class A. I've never quite broken 2000)  White mostly flails around not knowing how to meet it and I almost always get a better position out of the opening, and, I think at the very top level some of that still goes on and/or White's advantage isn't enough to win. The two games I've seen from Carlsen are one win and one draw against lower rated players, but then everyone is lower rated than Carlsen (one was Radjabov,) and in one of those games Carlsen played a very odd plan mixing the Snake and the Czech Benonis with Bd6 before pushing the d-pawn which... really just can't be a good move even if you think the Czech Beonini is good... but then again if you're Carlsen. ... Also the Kingside Knight manuver stuff was played by Anand, but it's always some very strong player "used to" play it, never plays it now... that could be fashion or there could be a very good reason. It's hard to know.

Thanks! Super informative.

I think I'm all set!!

As White: English

As Black vs 1.e4: Sicilian Dragon

As Black vs. 1.d4: Stonewall / Czech Benoni

Don't start thinking that you can use the stonewall as an all purpose defense and expect to survive.

As a Stonewall Dutch player, I can safely say that you must take the following into consideration:

1. If White can still play both Bf4 and Bd3 without any damage to his pawn structure, the Stonewall is horrible.  For Example:

2. The Stonewall Dutch is also bad if White commits to Nh3 early.

3. If White isn't going to take the long diagonal, Black should.  The pawns on f5, e6, and d7 are all blocking the Bishop. The long diagonal is open.  USE IT!

4.Don't play ...c6 until c4 is played!

No you are not set!!

Are you trying to get yourself killed on the chess board?

You see I know very well about dynamic and attacking lines.

Let me explain!

I play the Kings Indian Defense and Kings Indian Attack. The soul purpose of such lines is 99% of the time king side pawn storms to mate the enemy king.

However, Even though I love playing these lines. I can not be oblivious or naive about there faults.

I do like playing my K-I-D;however, in long standard time control games you need lines which are more solid. Which is why I also play the Gruenfeld. It is more solid. An the dynamic possibilities are still there. They are there in another form.

You said the following statement:

The reason why I like closed-center positions is becase of the dynamic and attacking possibilites which arise from it.

The dynamic and attacking possibilities may arise from the above 3 lines you mentioned. However, they are not super solid.