what to play against KID
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hello, I've been looking into a way to kill the KID (as best I can) by playing for some king side attack. there are a lot of ways to do this, like with the f3 systems, Be2-Bg5/Be3, and the h3 KID. I am leaning most towards the last option, specifically h3-Be3 with g4 whenever possible and routing the knight to g3 and playing f3-h4. does anyone have any opinions on this way of playing or resources on these kind of attacks in the KID? Thanks!
Learn from Kramnik how to kill the King's Indian Defense.
This caused Kasparov to abandon the King's Indian Defense.
https://www.chessgames.com/perl/chessgame?gid=1070932
Linkeroftime1 wrote:
hello, I've been looking into a way to kill the KID (as best I can) by playing for some king side attack. there are a lot of ways to do this, like with the f3 systems, Be2-Bg5/Be3, and the h3 KID. I am leaning most towards the last option, specifically h3-Be3 with g4 whenever possible and routing the knight to g3 and playing f3-h4. does anyone have any opinions on this way of playing or resources on these kind of attacks in the KID? Thanks!
any of these variations are reasonable against the KID.
the early h3 move by white is generally the Makogonov variation. it is considered a sideline in comparison to the Classical, the Averbahk, or the Saemich.
I can provide multiple books suggested for the black side if you wish to investigate them?
@chessterd1 that'd be great actually, I used to study the black side of the KID but I never faced the h3 line so I'm not super familiar with it. To my knowledge theory is being developed at the master level for the h3-g4 lines, but if there is any resources on that line and others I would really appreciate it
Linkeroftime1 wrote:
@chessterd1 that'd be great actually, I used to study the black side of the KID but I never faced the h3 line so I'm not super familiar with it. To my knowledge theory is being developed at the master level for the h3-g4 lines, but if there is any resources on that line and others I would really appreciate it
actually, I would say that theory is being Reinvestigated in the KID. most of all theory for the KID was explored and established from the 1940s into the 1960s by players like Eduard Gufeld, Gligoric, Tigran Petrosian, David Bronstien, Saemich, and Yuri Averbahk.
let me look through my library and I will provide you with a list of books, authors, and players whos games you need to study if you are going to play the KID seriously from either side.
here's five books to start with:
a) The Art of the Kings Indian by Eduard Gufeld.
b) Bronstien On The Kings Indian by David Bronstien.
c) Kings Indian Defense Mar del Plata Variation by Svetozar Gligoric.
d) Tactics in the Kings Indian by Gennady Nesis.
e) Zurich 1953 by David Bronstien
Jan 30, 2024
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#7
I like to bore the pants off of King's Indian players.
1.c4 Nf6 2.Nc3 g6 3.e4 d6 4.d4 Bg7 5.Nf3 O-O 6.Be2 e5 7.dxe5! dxe5 8.Qxd8 Rxd8 9.Bg5
Jan 31, 2024
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#8
Hi!
I play the KID as Black and I find h3 lines a bit tricky since they go out of mainlines. But apparently h3 line is not particularly worrying. Have a look at following game by young Kasparov!
Good luck!
maafernan wrote:
Hi!
I play the KID as Black and I find h3 lines a bit tricky since they go out of mainlines. But apparently h3 line is not particularly worrying. Have a look at following game by young Kasparov!
Good luck!
Is the king run part of top theory? Extremely rare to see a prepared king run in modern elite chess. Only problem is white loses but considering it was against Kasparov that was pretty much a foregone conclusion.
I would rather go for the interesting and little-explored Be2/Be3 system.
I thought that the 5.h3 (Makagonov) is very annoying, but then I found out the move order 5.h3 e5! 6.d5 (white cannot expect any sort of advantage after the antipositional 6.dxe5 dxe5 7.Qxd8+ Kxd8) 6...a5 when black is effectively one tempo and a half ahead of analogous positions (the one move is castling, which is not necessary at all with the center blocked, and the half one is the semi-useful h2-h3) and has scored great in practice.
Jan 31, 2024
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#11
Uhohspaghettio1 wrote:
maafernan wrote:
Hi!
I play the KID as Black and I find h3 lines a bit tricky since they go out of mainlines. But apparently h3 line is not particularly worrying. Have a look at following game by young Kasparov!
Good luck!
Is the king run part of top theory? Extremely rare to see a prepared king run in modern elite chess. Only problem is white loses but considering it was against Kasparov that was pretty much a foregone conclusion.
No it isn`t, in fact 14. Qb3 is a mistake. I shared this game in order to see Black possibilties against h3 variation.
Good luck!
I personally really enjoy the Classical Mar del Plata. 9. Ne1 Nd7 10. f3 f5 11. Be3 f4 12. Bf2 g5 and now my choice of 13. b4, 13. Rc1, and 13. g4, all of which are completely viable options that play drastically differently.
Mazetoskylo wrote:
I would rather go for the interesting and little-explored Be2/Be3 system.
I thought that the 5.h3 (Makagonov) is very annoying, but then I found out the move order 5.h3 e5! 6.d5 (white cannot expect any sort of advantage after the antipositional 6.dxe5 dxe5 7.Qxd8+ Kxd8) 6...a5 when black is effectively one tempo and a half ahead of analogous positions (the one move is castling, which is not necessary at all with the center blocked, and the half one is the semi-useful h2-h3) and has scored great in practice.
Alternatively 5. h3 e5 6. dxe5! dxe5 7. Qxd8+ Kxd8 8. Nf3 Nc6 9. Bg5 and White has a slight advantage.
Linkeroftime1 wrote:
hello, I've been looking into a way to kill the KID (as best I can) by playing for some king side attack. there are a lot of ways to do this, like with the f3 systems, Be2-Bg5/Be3, and the h3 KID. I am leaning most towards the last option, specifically h3-Be3 with g4 whenever possible and routing the knight to g3 and playing f3-h4. does anyone have any opinions on this way of playing or resources on these kind of attacks in the KID? Thanks!
I mean if you perfect the Mar Del Plata you will beat anyone, but it won't be that easy.
Ethan_Brollier wrote:
Mazetoskylo wrote:
I would rather go for the interesting and little-explored Be2/Be3 system.
I thought that the 5.h3 (Makagonov) is very annoying, but then I found out the move order 5.h3 e5! 6.d5 (white cannot expect any sort of advantage after the antipositional 6.dxe5 dxe5 7.Qxd8+ Kxd8) 6...a5 when black is effectively one tempo and a half ahead of analogous positions (the one move is castling, which is not necessary at all with the center blocked, and the half one is the semi-useful h2-h3) and has scored great in practice.
Alternatively 5. h3 e5 6. dxe5! dxe5 7. Qxd8+ Kxd8 8. Nf3 Nc6 9. Bg5 and White has a slight advantage.
I fail to see the reason white could claim an advantage here, say after 9...h6 10.0-0-0+ Bd7 11.Be3 Kc8. Actually the only reason Black cannot claim an advantage already, is the slightly uncomfortable king placement.
@Mazetoskylo I would argue that white simply has easier play after the exchange of queens in the line you mentioned. It just looks like a better exchange (which is slightly better for white already) with the king stuck in the middle. Not to mention that h3 isn't the worst move to burn on the board. I do agree with you on the semi averback though, I would just see it as relatively equal in strength
the Averbahk and the Saemich are in my opinion the two hardest variations to play against.
Flowchart for the KID. The old 9... Ne8 variation plays out almost identically to the modern 9... Nd7, so no need for two separate lines there.
Ethan_Brollier wrote:
Flowchart for the KID. The old 9... Ne8 variation plays out almost identically to the modern 9... Nd7, so no need for two separate lines there.
11.Nc2 is the critical move, 11.Nxc6 is harmless. Black is theoretically OK, but he must play very accurately.