What well known gambits are unsound?

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Fred-Splott

In the position after 6. Bg7 .... Ng6 I have played 7. Bf4 and won in a very tactical encounter where white kept a space and pawn advantage and swapped it back at the right time for an attack.

Pacifique
Fred-Splott wrote:

<<>>

I've racked my brains but I cannot see the illegality of the move. So what's wrong with it? In my opinion the natural counter looks like Bg4. Have you anything better?

Are you a Frenchman? :)

White has no d-pawn so 6.d3 is impossible indeed.

Pacifique
ponz111 wrote:

Hi Pacifique.  In my game trying to show how to exploit a positional advantage

 you gave the improvement of 33. ...dxc5+ 34. Kxc5  axb5 35. Bb5  Ke7  36. d6+  Kd8! and white cannot win.  All this proves is White's move of 33. c5 was premature and an error. White can go slower and set some things up on the king side and keep the pawn on c4 for a while and can always later play the moves bxa6  bxa6 saddling

Black with a very weak a6 pawn at the appropriate time. This endgame would be very difficult for Black and not something that Black would really want to happen.

However, I commend you for pointing out the error of my 33rd move!

In fact Black is not obliged to force all these exchanges, made in your line.

ponz111
Pacifique
Fred-Splott wrote:

In the position after 6. Bg7 .... Ng6 I have played 7. Bf4 and won in a very tactical encounter where white kept a space and pawn advantage and swapped it back at the right time for an attack.

The position after 7.Bf4 h6 8.0-0?! Nxf4 9.gxf4 g5 is dream of any Albin player.

ponz111

I do not have any analysis on the 5. g3  Nge7 line but after the continuation

6. Bg2  Ng6  very probably I would play 7. Bf4 and if

Black wants to take that B fine...

This and any opening variation may have a thousand lines stemming from it.

ponz111

Pacifique if you can be at all objective about the Ponziani position and the lines which follow you would have to say Black is defendings all the way--am I correct? 

There are ways for White to improve even earlier which are noted in my book but in general this position with a White spatial advantage is no fun for Black at all.

mottsauce

Halloween Gambit is absolutely sound.

pfren

7.Bf4 Bf5! 8.Nbd2 Qd7 (tried in a few corr games) is fine for Black.

Pacifique
pfren wrote:

@ Pacifique: The Q was not for me, but I will try answering it.

The critical line seems to be 7.0-0 Ngxe5 8.Nxe5 Nxe5 9.Na3! Be7 10.Nb5 0-0 11.Nxd4 Nxc4 12.b3 Bf6 (12...Nd6 is playable, but somewhat passive) 13.e3! (13.bc4 Bxd4?! 14.Rb1, as played in a recent blitz game between Chucky and Moro, should be better for white a bit, but 13...Qxd4 is an equalizer) 13..c5 14.bc4 cd4 15.ed4 Bxd4 (15...Qxd4 16.Qxd4 Bxd4 17.Rb1 is comfortably better for white) 16.Rb1 Be6! when white is certainly more active, but the material is quite reduced, and I doubt if white's advantage can spell something more than the better part of a draw.

7.0-0 Ngxe5 8.Nxe5 Nxe5 9.Na3! seems to be the most testing indeed. What about 10.Nb5 0-0 11.Nxd4 Nxc4 12.b3 Ne5 (instead of 12...Bf6) 13.Bb2 Bf6 ?

Fred-Splott

Oh yes, e3 then, same difference. I've had a long week.

Pacifique
ponz111 wrote:

Pacifique if you can be at all objective about the Ponziani position and the lines which follow you would have to say Black is defendings all the way--am I correct? 

There are ways for White to improve even earlier which are noted in my book but in general this position with a White spatial advantage is no fun for Black at all.

Even if white has some small advantage the draw is the most plausible result between more or less equal players.

Dark_Falcon

every gambit is sound, as long as you have good results with it vs. players on your level or better player...

Fred-Splott

Sorry, why would white castle on the eighth move? The idea is that white is trying to win, not lose. I think my king stayed in the centre for quite a few more moves. There are plenty of things white would do rather than castle: one might be a3, which is probably in character for me.

pfren
Pacifique wrote:

7.0-0 Ngxe5 8.Nxe5 Nxe5 9.Na3! seems to be the most testing indeed. What about 10.Nb5 0-0 11.Nxd4 Nxc4 12.b3 Ne5 (instead of 12...Bf6) 13.Bb2 Bf6 ?

This is OK of course, but still white should have a regular small edge following 14.Rc1 or 14.Qc2. To be honest, I never bothered to find the actual magnitude of the problem, since I'm perfectly happy with 5.a3! which I have analysed quite thoroughly (despite the fact that i usually play 2.Nf3 first, when... no Albin or regular Chigorin (which annoys me much more than the Albin).

ponz111
Fred-Splott

7. Bg5 looks interesting too. Maybe that could be played and then white would have a pleasant choice after Be7.

Pacifique
Fred-Splott wrote:

Oh yes, e3 then, same difference. I've had a long week.

And what kind of problems Black should have after 6.e3 Bg4 ?



ponz111

In the above position [if it can be reached after 7. ...Bf5] does not White threaten Rd1 putting a lot of pressure on the black position?

[I don't know the answer--just curious]

Pacifique
Fred-Splott wrote:

7. Bg5 looks interesting too. Maybe that could be played and then white would have a pleasant choice after Be7.

7.Bg5 Qd7!