what's the weakness in this opening?

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Avatar of Omicron

Hey everyone. Before starting to study opening lines I used to play this "dual center pawn" opening with white a lot. My goal was to get to the following pawn position: I have several questions about this: Why is this not usual to see in decent/higher level chess? is it because black must have played wrong to get into this position?

 

Despite it worked very well for me, I somehow stoped playing this. Ironically a friend of mine got the habit of allways opening with 1 - d4; and tries to follow 2 - e4 to push e5. Now I'm the one suffering this awkward position in the blackside. I know I can avoid it by just playing 1- d4 ; d5. But isn't there any other way to prevent it? I'm bored of playing against him and starting every game with 1 - d4 ; d5. I'll show you an example of what happened when I tried to play something away from 1....d5.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 Maybe the black position isn't even bad here, but I've got into trouble many times after he pushed e5. Specially since he will most certainly hit my kingside quickly with his queen and other pieces while mine are rather blocked in the other side. ¿Any thoughts?


Avatar of Chesser777
This.
Avatar of gdadson

Have you ever played the following opening: 1. d4 d5 2. e4 dxe4

Go check out the following website: http://www.eudesign.com/chessops/

Once there, search for "Queen's Pawn Game, Blackmar-Diemer Gambit".  The opening follows a similar line.

Hope it helps!


Avatar of likesforests

The position after 1.d4 d5 2.e4 e6 3.e5 is fine for both sides--it's called the French Advance. You can learn more about it by visiting www.chesskids.com and clicking on Resources | Lessons | The French Defense. Naturally, Black is going to aim for an early c5, and White is either going to attack on the kingside or push f5.

You can also meet 1.d4 d5 2.e4 with 2...dxe4. This is the Blackmar-Diemer Gambit accepted, and play is quite sharp tactically but Black is probably better.


Avatar of DimKnight

The original position is the Advance Variation of the French Defense. It's usually reached via 1 e4 e6 2 d4 d5 3 e5. It's perfectly respectable and can be used by grandmasters and patzers alike. In fact, Aron Nimzovich played this fairly regularly and used many of his games as examples in his seminal work My System.

It's hard to give a brief summary of this opening (especially since today it's much more fashionable to play 3 Nc3, the Winawer Variation, keeping the tension in the center). But here are a few things to think about. 

White has more space than black, and the pawn formation suggests a kingside attack. Conversely, black's pawns are pointing toward the queenside, and he may choose to expand in that direction. Black can start to attack white's pawn chain immediately with the common 3...c5, but he can't generally force the win of a pawn. Instead, black uses white's d4 pawn as a focus for the development of his pieces (often putting the Queen on b6 (where it also attacks b2) and a Knight on c6. After black's Bf8 moves, white can often stir things up with Qg4, attacking the g7 pawn. Often, the locked-up center formation means that it's a challenge for black to develop his pieces easily, particularly the queen bishop. White has a somewhat freer hand. 

Incidentally, I recently played a tournament game  that mirrored the you vs friend game until move 3. I played 3...d5, transposing to a regular French Defense. He responded with 4 e5, dislodging my Nf6, and I countered with 4...Nfd7. In this position my pieces are a little jumbled up, but I was able to whip up a strong queenside attack following a later ...c5. 

In short, there is no weakness in that position. It's perfectly playable by the white or black side, and has been played at top levels for decades. 


Avatar of Omicron
Thank you guys for the insights. I've been looking at the French advance and now I understand I was playing it wrong. What still disturbs me is that, since I don't like simetrical games for black, after 1 d4, I don't usually play D5. But whatever I do different from 1... d5 it seems like he can allways drag me to this french advance; and its an uncomfortable opening to play against such an aggresive player.
Avatar of BirdsDaWord

I don't like the idea of after e4 e6 d4 d5 e5 c5 c3 f6, that is too early of a decision for Black.  His king is fine, there is no sense to play that move at that time.  The point of c5 is to begin counterattacking on the queenside.  You should continue with Nc6.  After 4...f6, White should play 5.Bd3 and you should resign.  You make too many pawn moves in the opening.  Now, if White is careless, then ...f6 is fine.  If he doesn't want to kill your king, then 4...f6 is fine.  But you should consider getting a few pieces off the back rank first.


Avatar of BirdsDaWord

Omicron, you are probably okay in your second match.  I would quickly castle, and prepare f6 to assault White's center.  The other bishop can come out on b7 with b6 and a5 as good moves...You should be okay.  It just seems a shame to trade pieces like that so early, increases the odds of a draw- unless that is what you want :-).


Avatar of TwoMove
In second game, can play 1.d4 Nf6 2.Nc3 d5 3.Bg5 Nb-d7 can only play e4 as a pawn sac. If 4.Nf3 h6 5.Bh4 e6 now if  6e4 have option 6..g5  when white is sacing a pawn again for a bit more compensation than before, or 6...pxp with a type of french were white can't play e4-e5. Probably he won't be so keen about that.
Avatar of onehandgann

If you want to avoid the e5 advance(french) you can play that knight f6 line you played but do not play e6. You need to play any variations that use d6 to prevent the advance or make the advantage better for you. Maybe kings indian set up would work for.

d4 Nf6

Nc3 g6

e4  d6

If e5 is played then pawn takes pawn and if white takes back there is a trade of queens and white loses castling rights or gets  his knight in a passive position. And white will almost never play e5 in this position.  

 


Avatar of onehandgann
ok and that is a common position(your first post) in high level chess. As many have pointed out that is the french advance variation and there are thousands of games played by grandmasters in it. I can understand if you dont like it or dont feel comfortable in it though. But there is nothing forcing you to play in the french advance against white. You are allowing that to happen by playing e6 which allows a transposition to that line(white plays e5 instead of the typical c4).