why is ruy lopez considered the strongest

Scottrf@

If you can't understand whites advantage entering the Berlin Wall defense it's not my fault. You don't need someone to show you this. Black has a king in the center, white has this extra e pawn on the king side and plays first after the Queen exchange, which means he can choose what ever he wants! Now if you compare this position with the Morphy defense included until 9.h3 I think black is in better shape.

I am not debate anyone. I write the truth in what I understand. If you don't agree, as I said I am not a chess trainer and I don't want to teach anyone. I play and understand for my self and for those who share my opinions. The inconvenience here is yours! not mine.

P.S : I assure you, that I play the Berlin more often than you.

ROFLMAO!  1.e4 and Open Positions are NOT Synonamous at all!

What's open about these lines?

1.e4 e6 2.d4 d5 3.e5 c5 4.c3 Nc6 5.Nf3 Qb6 6.a3 c4

1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Bb5 a6 4.Ba4 Nf6 5.O-O Be7 6.Re1 b5 7.Bb3 d6 8.c3 O-O 9.h3 Na5 10.Bc2 c5 11.d4 Qc7 12.d5 (not the only option, but a line)

1.e4 e6 2.d3 d5 3.Nd2 Nf6 4.g3 c5 5.Ngf3 Nc6 6.Bg2 Be7 7.O-O O-O 8.Re1 b5 9.e5 Nd7 10.Nf1 a5 11.h4 Ba6 12.N1h2 b4 13.Ng4 a4

And clearly you don't understand our argument.  We have said nothing about the Ruy vs the Petroff.  They are not even in the same area code.

White has no control over what Black does.  The argument is that after 1.e4 e5, there is nothing better for White than to play 2.Nf3, and if Black plays 2...Nc6, there is nothing better for White than 3.Bb5, and 3.Bb5 is stronger than all other moves, including 3.Bc4 and 3.d4.  Are 3.Bc4 or 3.d4 "unsound"?  No!  They simply are not as strong, and do not give White an advantage in the sense that Black has more room for error and yet have his king remain upright than defending the Ruy Lopez.

You want to start getting in an argument about the Petroff, that's across the state in a different county!  Our argument is White's best moves given that Black responds with 1...e5 and 2...Nc6.  Black deviations mean nothing when arguing validity of the Ruy Lopez being White's strongest answer to a specific response by Black.

Bg5, if you think white is better in the Berlin I'm sure you think white is better in the Quuen exchange lines of the Philidor and Old Indian right? (Black scores better than white). Don't trust your engines in these endgame positions. They know nothing.

I don't joke. I have no sense of humour.

I believe that you are innocent. Maybe even damp.

Uhm, the Berlin can't be better than the Ruy Lopez - The Berlin IS a variation of the Ruy Lopez!

That's like saying cookies taste better than junk food!

Nice!  Haven't seen something more true than this posted on this forum in ages!

Oh. So that's different than the Italian? Maybe in the same way that the Berlin is not the Ruy because it's a line of the Spanish?

FoS is an "expert" who does not even know what an "Open Position" actually is...

Sad, but OK, what can he do? Being a genius comes at a cost...

1. E4 always leads to more open positions. This is why the French Winawer is a d4 opening and the Tarrasch defense is an e4 opening. Fools.

You're even dumber than FoS.  After 1.d4 d5 2.c4 e6 3.Nc3 c5 4.cxd5 exd5 5.Nf3 Nc6 6.g3 Nf6 7.Bg2 Be7 8.O-O O-O 9.Bg5 c4, White has never pushed his pawn to e4, so how can it be an e4 opening?  DUH!

If you want to argue the French Winawer on a technicality, 1.d4 e6 2.e4 d5 3.Nc3 Bb4, go right ahead, dumb as you may sound.

A little math for you guys:

(lolurspammed's IQ + Number of Friends FiveOfSwords has + FiveOfSwords's IQ) < (Reb's Age - ThrillerFan's Age)

Well, when you clarify what he's an "expert" at, the statement would make more sense.

He's no expert at chess.  He's an expert at being in the closet, never seeing the light, and spouting BS on an internet message board!

I got the impression that Reb and others were saying that there is nothing better for white (after 1.e4 e5) than trying for a Ruy Lopez, not that Ruy Lopez is best.  I have no doubt you understand the difference, but in case any readers don't, the Italian Opening (1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Bc4), for example, might be as good, but not better.

I respect the opinions of experts in any field (I'm willing to accept the statements of Einstein, Dirac, Faraday, Maxwell, etc without feeling the needs to reproduce their work/analysis), but I do prefer using empirical data when possible.  So assuming the games database here at Chess.com is reliable, here is a way to gauge the effectiveness of openings: don't look only at the win percentage, we must instead calculate the expectation value (EV):

EV = (win percentage)*1 + (draw percentage)*0.5 + (lose percentage)*0

Based on this analysis of the 4 most popular moves:

2.Nf3 is best after 1.e4 e5, and

3.Bb5 is best after 1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc3.

Lolurspammed@

The Berlin ending is a lot different story that those you mentioned. I was not talking for the continuation of the Berlin ending but for the enter where black has a slight inferior position compared to the Morphy defense in the same number of moves. That's a fact and has nothing to do with the continuation or the expectations. When black chooses the Berlin, he goes to fight from an inferior position than when he plays the Morphy. End.

FOS only believes in stats and appeals to authority when they support his point of view . 

Shooting fish in a barrel.

5oS makes it very easy to attack him because he starts off by acting as if his opinion is more valuable than those who are authorities on the issue. He and others then erroneously say that these experts are making a logical fallacy. He claims to have studied philosophy, so he should know when relying on the practice of authorities is acceptable.

One of the reasons the Spanish is so rich is that, unlike many 1.e4 e5 openings, it can be played as a closed opening. There are lines of the Spanish that have more in common with the Benoni than with the Italian.

Korchnoi tried to revitalize the Open lines, but got beat down by Karpov. Since then, the Open has taken a back seat to closed variations of the Spanish.

Larsen and Korchnoi both liked the Open Spanish ... I need to get a couple of Larsen books as I have none of his in my library . 

ThrillerFan can't detect sarcasm. Also your arguments

ROFL

Do you know how many games Kasparov played the Scotch and how many he played the Ruy ?  Do some research and get back to me on that ...