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Why the hypermodern school isn't popular?

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thunder_tiger123
thunder_tiger123
Dec 16, 2013
0
#41
TitanCG wrote:
1ove wrote:

They're boring games. Plain and simple.

 

-Former reti & english player

We can't embed youtube videos anymore?? 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=glAhxGTgoKY

yup, even Kansha (staff member) is trying to figure this out

2mooroo
2mooroo
Dec 16, 2013
0
#42
Yaroslavl wrote:

With 5...a6 Black restrains White from playing 6.Bb5+.
It's a very flexible move with several functions.  Most importantly it's a waiting move which enables black to decide on the course of action only after seeing what white has in mind, but it also helps tremendously in other ways by enabling a later b5 push and keeping knights off of b5 (which is critical since the queen oftens moves to c7).  It does indeed have the benefit of preventing Bb5 but I don't know of a single line where Bb5 is a major threat.  Even when black opts not to play a6 until much later, the move Bb5 is very rare.  If black wanted to rule out Bb5+ he'd have to play 2..a6 (The O'Kelly variation).

Unless White plays 1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 d6 3.d4 cxd4 4.Nxd4 Nf6 5.Bb5+. 5.Bb5 is designed to exchange the Black N if Black plays 5...Nd7 or the Black LSB if Black plays 5...Bd7.
Bb5 is very rarely played in either of those circumstances.  I will go even further and say it's not a good move.

In answer to your question of what to play against 1.d4 you can bet on the King's Indian Defense.
Too much maneuvering for me.

For example, if your Q is threatened with capture. There are 2 ways to defend it. The indirect way if it is available in the position is to threaten your opponent with mate on the move if he captures your Q.  Very true.  Would we then call the move that threatens mate hypermodern?

zborg
zborg
Dec 16, 2013
0
#43

It's so popular people don't believe it's controversial anymore.

Except for selected posters in this mindless thread.

What's up with the long-winded quotes above?  Nobody reads them.  Duh??

Yaroslavl
Yaroslavl
Dec 16, 2013
0
#44

Regarding 5...a6 and how it is Hypermodern which is what your question was; you forgot one. It is a clever move with which Black usefully keeps his options open over how to employ his e-pawn. Once again returning to control of the center with special focus on the central square d5.

Regarding your second point. If Black trades the LSB it weakens his control over the central and thematic square d5.

Regarding your 3rd entry. Learn the Caro-Kann while you are looking for an alternative. It will a very good addition to your opening repertoire. Especially handy in weekend OTB tournaments for nicking for 1/2 a point higher rated players that you are paired against when you have the Back pieces.

Regarding your final entry. Only if it concerns controlling the center.

thunder_tiger123
thunder_tiger123
Dec 16, 2013
0
#45
Yaroslavl wrote:

Regarding 5...a6 and how it is Hypermodern which is what your question was; you forgot one. It is a clever move with which Black usefully keeps his options open over how to employ his e-pawn. Once again returning to control of the center with special focus on the central square d5.

Regarding your second point. If Black trades the LSB it weakens his control over the central and thematic square d5.

Regarding your 3rd entry. Learn the Caro-Kann while you are looking for an alternative. It will a very good addition to your opening repertoire. Especially handy in weekend OTB tournaments for nicking for 1/2 a point higher rated players that you are paired against when you have the Back pieces.

Regarding your final entry. Only if it concerns controlling the center.

lol I never want a draw. unless it's forced, or if I'm playing someone like 500 points higher than me (which has only happened twice in my lifetime)

2mooroo
2mooroo
Dec 16, 2013
0
#46

I didn't forget, I stated it was flexible waiting move.  The e pawn is one of the many pieces black procrastinates commiting.

You stand nearly alone in your Bb5 idea.  I don't play that and there's hardly any games in my database with it.  Black is very flexible and is not dependent on any single piece.  3.Bb5+ with the idea of setting up a Maroczy Bind with no bad bishop is something that deserves some respect, although I still don't think it yields anything incredible for white.

I'm looking for a defense against 1.d4 not 1.e4.  Also, I generally don't play passive openings like the Caro Kann.

thunder_tiger123
thunder_tiger123
Dec 16, 2013
0
#47
2mooroo wrote:

I didn't forget, I stated it was flexible waiting move.  The e pawn is one of the many pieces black procrastinates commiting.

You stand nearly alone in your Bb5 idea.  I don't play that and there's hardly any games in my database with it.  Black is very flexible and is not dependent on any single piece.  3.Bb5+ with the idea of setting up a Maroczy Bind with no bad bishop is something that deserves some respect, although I still don't think it yields anything incredible for white.

I'm looking for a defense against 1.d4 not 1.e4.  Also, I generally don't play passive openings like the Caro Kann.

caro is not passive. some variations like the bronstein variation are dangerous surprise weapons, and are full of tactics. you also said you don't play passive openings - play the Gruenfeld or KID althought they're sorta complicated, but with your 2000 rating, I'm pretty sure you can handle it.

thunder_tiger123
thunder_tiger123
Dec 16, 2013
0
#48
chessmicky wrote:

Isn't the term "Hypermodern" just a little ironic for ideas that are now round 90 years old?

hypermodern is a general term for new ideas. lol I guess your right, but they're still being developed.

thunder_tiger123
thunder_tiger123
Dec 16, 2013
0
#49
chessmicky wrote:

I don't think "hypermodern" is just a synonym for new ideas. I think the term still refers to a specific approach to controlling the center from a distance or indirectly with pieces.

In the years since the hypermodern revolution, we've also seen a lot of exciting innovations in classical openings like the Slav and the QGD.  Kramnik even revived the ancient Berlin Defense, one of the oldest lines in the Ruy Lopez and made it new again

the berlin isn't hypermodern though. it's more classical since it came from a ruy.

chessdex
chessdex
Dec 16, 2013
0
#50

The Sicilian is hypermodern. It's black's most popular reply to e4. I find that there are much more hypermodern black openings than White.

thunder_tiger123
thunder_tiger123
Dec 16, 2013
0
#51
chessdex wrote:

The Sicilian is hypermodern. It's black's most popular reply to e4. I find that there are much more hypermodern black openings than White.

no, the sicilian is a combo of both. ever heard of the classical variation Tongue Out

but the dragon variation and all the accelerated and hyper-accelerated stuff is mostly hypermodern.

chessdex
chessdex
Dec 16, 2013
0
#52

yes, I agree. Thanks for the correction.

ifoody
ifoody
Dec 17, 2013
0
#53

Of course i understand the need for beginner and even 1800 players to learn classical ideas, because without knowing the classical chess very good, you can't learn the hypermodern chess, and also it's very difficult ideas to learn. I ask about the masters mostly.

Yaroslavl
Yaroslavl
Dec 17, 2013
0
#54

ifoody wrote:

Of course i understand the need for beginner and even 1800 players to learn classical ideas, because without knowing the classical chess very good, you can't learn the hypermodern chess, and also it's very difficult ideas to learn. I ask about the masters mostly.

________________________________

I would appreciate knowing: 1.What do you think, after reading this thread, is the answer to your question?

2. What do you know about the Hypermodern school now, that you didn't know before reading this thread.

thunder_tiger123
thunder_tiger123
Dec 17, 2013
0
#55
LuftWaffles wrote:
1ove wrote:

They're boring games. Plain and simple.

 

-Former reti & english player

Your fake picture is boring.

please don't go off topic. this is one of the many threads that trolls have not yet swarmed yet. and I don't want to attract trolls.

thunder_tiger123
thunder_tiger123
Dec 17, 2013
0
#56
LuftWaffles wrote:

Yeah, sorry. I just couldn't help it with the useless comment and fake profile.

But then I guess my comment wasn't very useful either.

it's ok, just please don't do it again because it gives trolls a chance to troll

ivandh
ivandh
Dec 17, 2013
0
#57
thunder_tiger123 a écrit :
LuftWaffles wrote:

Yeah, sorry. I just couldn't help it with the useless comment and fake profile.

But then I guess my comment wasn't very useful either.

it's ok, just please don't do it again because it gives trolls a chance to troll

You sound an awful lot like you are trolling.

thunder_tiger123
thunder_tiger123
Dec 17, 2013
0
#58
ivandh wrote:
thunder_tiger123 a écrit :
LuftWaffles wrote:

Yeah, sorry. I just couldn't help it with the useless comment and fake profile.

But then I guess my comment wasn't very useful either.

it's ok, just please don't do it again because it gives trolls a chance to troll

You sound an awful lot like you are trolling.

no I'm not, I'm trying to stop people from trolling this discussion, which has gone awfully off-topic, and I am trying to bring it back on topic, but some trolls like you are making random comments

Irontiger
Irontiger
Dec 17, 2013
0
#59
ifoody wrote:

Of course i understand the need for beginner and even 1800 players to learn classical ideas, because without knowing the classical chess very good, you can't learn the hypermodern chess, and also it's very difficult ideas to learn. I ask about the masters mostly.

You make it sound like "classical" chess is driving a car and "hypermodern" driving a truck. It just does not work that way.

(yes, I know it's a lousy analogy, but I suspect there is lousy thinking here too)

thunder_tiger123
thunder_tiger123
Dec 17, 2013
0
#60
Irontiger wrote:
ifoody wrote:

Of course i understand the need for beginner and even 1800 players to learn classical ideas, because without knowing the classical chess very good, you can't learn the hypermodern chess, and also it's very difficult ideas to learn. I ask about the masters mostly.

You make it sound like "classical" chess is driving a car and "hypermodern" driving a truck. It just does not work that way.

(yes, I know it's a lousy analogy, but I suspect there is lousy thinking here too)

and at the OP: you don't need masters to answer your question. some masters still play pure classical openings. and some don't know anything about hypermodern things. if that's the reason why you rarely respond, I'd suggest listening to other people's opinions, not just masters. some people here are making some good points.