Why would White play the exchange varioation in the French defence?

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Jenium

As said before, you can play the exchange in a peaceful way and head right to an endgame. Or you could make it imbalanced, either by castleing opposite sides or by playing c4. Usually Black will do the job for you and go 0-0-0, when White might be a bit faster with the pawn storm...

Erwinmk

I haven't lost yet; the game is still ongoing! So, no comments in partcicular on my moves ;-)

0peoplelikethis

It is totaly irrelevant what opening you play. Not a single participant in this thread would be capable of maintaining a theoretical opening advantage throughout a game, regardless of opening they play. Someone like ThrillerFan would get their axx whooped at least 9 out of 10 times in the exchange French against a stronger player. Agianst a player of equal strength, the majority of games would be decided by mutual mistakes and/or blunders. The truth hurts.

AfricanAlekhine

send me a 3+0 challenge and i will crush you 10-0 with french exchange, i will prove to you its not a draw!

ninjaswat
0peoplelikethis wrote:

It is totaly irrelevant what opening you play. Not a single participant in this thread would be capable of maintaining a theoretical opening advantage throughout a game, regardless of opening they play. Someone like ThrillerFan would get their axx whooped at least 9 out of 10 times in the exchange French against a stronger player. Agianst a player of equal strength, the majority of games would be decided by mutual mistakes and/or blunders. The truth hurts.

I will say that ThrillerFan is talking about drawing in the exchange French otb, against a player who isn’t some GM… which I believe he could do with enough patience… but in blitz or rapid? The exchange French isn’t a draw for a while.

Erwinmk

I did take a look here at the database on Chess.com and so far found at least about a 1000 games over the past ten years on master level, with games playing the Winawer delayed exchange variation.

ThrillerFan
0peoplelikethis wrote:

It is totaly irrelevant what opening you play. Not a single participant in this thread would be capable of maintaining a theoretical opening advantage throughout a game, regardless of opening they play. Someone like ThrillerFan would get their axx whooped at least 9 out of 10 times in the exchange French against a stronger player. Agianst a player of equal strength, the majority of games would be decided by mutual mistakes and/or blunders. The truth hurts.

 

Oh really?  I guess that's why I have beaten many higher rated players in the exchange French over the board!  If you need proof, the September 1st, 2014 download on The Week in Chess archives.  It has all 9 of my games from the 2014 US Open in Orlando, Florida.  In the 5th round, I faced an opponent 157 rating points higher than me at the time.  While the game started out a Petroff, after 1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nf6 3.Nxe5 d6 4.Nf3 Nxe4 5.d3 Nf6 6.d4 d5, you have a direct transposition to the Exchange French after 1.e4 e6 2.d4 d5 3.exd5 exd5 4.Nf3 Nf6.  Uhm, Black won!

 

I have many others like this where I beat or drew players higher rated that tried to play the exchange French, they just are not published like that one is from 2014 as full blown proof.

 

Now those that are 200 higher that play a stronger move like 3.Nc3!, yes, of course my numbers will be sub-.500.  But not in the exchange or exchange Winawer, even against higher opposition!

 

SMH!

ThrillerFan
ninjaswat wrote:
0peoplelikethis wrote:

It is totaly irrelevant what opening you play. Not a single participant in this thread would be capable of maintaining a theoretical opening advantage throughout a game, regardless of opening they play. Someone like ThrillerFan would get their axx whooped at least 9 out of 10 times in the exchange French against a stronger player. Agianst a player of equal strength, the majority of games would be decided by mutual mistakes and/or blunders. The truth hurts.

I will say that ThrillerFan is talking about drawing in the exchange French otb, against a player who isn’t some GM… which I believe he could do with enough patience… but in blitz or rapid? The exchange French isn’t a draw for a while.

 

In blitz or rapid, 1.h4 can win games.

I refuse to ever base the validity of opening statistics on blitz or rapid time controls.  Slow chess over the board is where the truth about skill is shown!  If you are 1200 over the board and 2000 in chess.com blitz, big whoop, you show little to no skill what-so-ever!  If you are 2000 over the board, and only 1500 blitz here, doesn't matter what chess.com players that never play over the board think, their opinions are completely meaningless!  That player is an expert.

To have a valid argument about skill, you need either a FIDE, USCF, BCF, or other organizational rating.  Internet ratings are garbage.

 

And yes, a GM would likely beat me in any opening, though I would have more confidence in drawing a GM in the Exchange French than any other French (Winawer, Classical, Tarrasch, Advance, KIA, etc).

Erwinmk

@ThirrelFan! Don't waste my discussion here, like you did last time!

Ethan_Brollier
tlay80 wrote:

[I] am starting to think I really need to have an "anti-kids" repertoire consisting of things like the Exchange French (as White) and the Petroff (as black).  

Am I alone in thinking about it that way?  I want no part of playing "safe" against stronger players (that never works), but against weaker ones, discretion may be the better part of valor.

You've answered your own question. You said you want no part of playing "safe" against stronger players because the stronger player will always win. So wanting to play "safe" as the stronger player to always win makes a lot of sense.

brianchesscake

White plays the French exchange when he/she is afraid of black's prep... that's a fact!

tlay80
Ethan_Brollier wrote:
tlay80 wrote:

[I] am starting to think I really need to have an "anti-kids" repertoire consisting of things like the Exchange French (as White) and the Petroff (as black).  

Am I alone in thinking about it that way?  I want no part of playing "safe" against stronger players (that never works), but against weaker ones, discretion may be the better part of valor.

You've answered your own question. You said you want no part of playing "safe" against stronger players because the stronger player will always win. So wanting to play "safe" as the stronger player to always win makes a lot of sense.

It's funny you should reply now. Yesterday, I had my first chance to try an Exchange French in the circumstances I'd described.  Final round of a short Swiss -- a win wins the tournament, a draw (it became clear halfway through the game) results in a four-way share of first.  I was playing for a win.

On the whole I think the idea was a good one.  Unfortunately, I overpressed, got into time pressure, couldn't find the win, and then blundered the endgame. But I think the basic approach was a good one.

Then again, I was doing this with virtually no prep, nor any special study of how to play these middlegames.  What better ways are there to handle this as White?

 

EKAFC

The Exchange is for lazy players who don't like fun positions. In fact, hardly any of the Exchange players I faced ever play the most critical move and play very passively. Nevertheless, I win most of my games against it and then I insult them because they deserve it. If you are struggling against the Exchange Variation, I highly recommend checking out my French Study where you will have a good system against it so you too can insult them for playing a dull opening

Ethan_Brollier
tlay80 wrote:
Ethan_Brollier wrote:
tlay80 wrote:

[I] am starting to think I really need to have an "anti-kids" repertoire consisting of things like the Exchange French (as White) and the Petroff (as black).  

Am I alone in thinking about it that way?  I want no part of playing "safe" against stronger players (that never works), but against weaker ones, discretion may be the better part of valor.

You've answered your own question. You said you want no part of playing "safe" against stronger players because the stronger player will always win. So wanting to play "safe" as the stronger player to always win makes a lot of sense.

It's funny you should reply now. Yesterday, I had my first chance to try an Exchange French in the circumstances I'd described.  Final round of a short Swiss -- a win wins the tournament, a draw (it became clear halfway through the game) results in a four-way share of first.  I was playing for a win.

On the whole I think the idea was a good one.  Unfortunately, I overpressed, got into time pressure, couldn't find the win, and then blundered the endgame. But I think the basic approach was a good one.

Then again, I was doing this with virtually no prep, nor any special study of how to play these middlegames.  What better ways are there to handle this as White?

My immediate recommendation after reading the post would be to prep. Studying a new variation takes a lot of time. If I had known how soon your match would have been, I never would have recommended learning the Exchange French, instead recommending studying for a month or two and then testing it out.

Alchessblitz

1) e4-e6 2) d4-d5 3) exd5-exd5

a : 4) Nf3 is a strategic mistake [in my opinion] because Black can solve his problem of the French Exchange by a game with 0-0-0, example : 1) e4-e6 2) d4-d5 3) exd5-exd5 4) Nf3-Nc6 5) Bd3-Bg4 6) c3-Qf6 7) Nbd2_0-0-0

b : 4) Bd3-Bd6 5) Ne2 it is this the real variation that can annoy Black with notably the idea of playing a Bf4 (example 5...Ne7 6. Bf4)

c : 4) c4 it is rather when White plays to win but if we play the French Exchange it's rather because we play against a stronger opponent and we try above all not to lose so this move seems to me "strategically not very logical"

Laskersnephew
The exchange variation is so harmless that only the weakest players like Kasparov, Anand, and Carlsen are foolish enough to play it for a win for white.
Ethan_Brollier
EKAFC wrote:

The Exchange is for lazy players who don't like fun positions.
++ If I recall correctly, we've had this conversation before. Don't insult personalities based on opening preferences.
In fact, hardly any of the Exchange players I faced ever play the most critical move and play very passively. Nevertheless, I win most of my games against it and then I insult them because they deserve it.
++ Fantastic sportsmanship.

tlay80
Alchessblitz wrote:

1) e4-e6 2) d4-d5 3) exd5-exd5

a : 4) Nf3 is a strategic mistake [in my opinion] because Black can solve his problem of the French Exchange by a game with 0-0-0, example : 1) e4-e6 2) d4-d5 3) exd5-exd5 4) Nf3-Nc6 5) Bd3-Bg4 6) c3-Qf6 7) Nbd2_0-0-0

b : 4) Bd3-Bd6 5) Ne2 it is this the real variation that can annoy Black with notably the idea of playing a Bf4 (example 5...Ne7 6. Bf4)

c : 4) c4 it is rather when White plays to win but if we play the French Exchange it's rather because we play against a stronger opponent and we try above all not to lose so this move seems to me "strategically not very logical"

Thanks -- this is very helpful.  I'll get on the case of more studying.

EKAFC
Alchessblitz wrote:

1) e4-e6 2) d4-d5 3) exd5-exd5

a : 4) Nf3 is a strategic mistake [in my opinion] because Black can solve his problem of the French Exchange by a game with 0-0-0, example : 1) e4-e6 2) d4-d5 3) exd5-exd5 4) Nf3-Nc6 5) Bd3-Bg4 6) c3-Qf6 7) Nbd2_0-0-0

b : 4) Bd3-Bd6 5) Ne2 it is this the real variation that can annoy Black with notably the idea of playing a Bf4 (example 5...Ne7 6. Bf4)

c : 4) c4 it is rather when White plays to win but if we play the French Exchange it's rather because we play against a stronger opponent and we try above all not to lose so this move seems to me "strategically not very logical"

Your post was very good but please do not use hyphens with notations. Try using under the lines of  1.e4 e6 2.d4 d5 3.exd5 exd5 etc. It's a lot easier to read

EKAFC
Ethan_Brollier wrote:
EKAFC wrote:

The Exchange is for lazy players who don't like fun positions.
++ If I recall correctly, we've had this conversation before. Don't insult personalities based on opening preferences.
In fact, hardly any of the Exchange players I faced ever play the most critical move and play very passively. Nevertheless, I win most of my games against it and then I insult them because they deserve it.
++ Fantastic sportsmanship.

They still deserve it. Also please keep in mind that whenever I play the French, most people play the Exchange and I like playing very ambitious openings. Notice how I never bad-mouth anyone who plays ambitious openings. I may lose to some random crap but it's much more enjoyable than playing an opening where I draw 10% of the time. 

 

Then some of them have the audacity to request a takeback after they made a bad move. I tell them that I would have gladly accepted on move 3 but they aren't going to get any mercy for that.