GMs, IMs, etc. are elitists!

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bosco714
Chess_Enigma wrote:

Sounds like you are grumpy because you havn't earned a title yet.


Okay, I can see how that comes across. If there's any truth to it, though, it's because I'm "grumpy" at finding all avenues TO that title roadblocked! I have been wanting to vent about arrogant chess authors for quite some time. But beyond that, what can they DO for me?

bosco714
NickYoung5 wrote:
bosco714 wrote:
NickYoung5 wrote:

I don't know what other books you had in mind but my memory of reading Silman's books is that, as often as not, the objects of his derision are his own games. Relax, people who are good at things often come across as patronising and condescending ... not just in chess.


I'm quite sure that I am not merely betrayed by an active imagination, my good sir. I don't give a care whether Silman slams himself and his own games, quite frankly. But what I find interesting is that these authors and "greats" hide behind their books and articles. Good chess teachers are next to impossible to find. But, no, you can go to your local Barnes & Noble and buy a chess book. And you can read the same old personal garbage over and over again. And they are nowhere to be found when the rest of us want to ask them questions, or want to seek to pursue further instruction, or even want to get their autographs! (Speaking purely theoretically.)


So far on this site I have sent 2 messages to titled players and received 1 reply (a helpful one, from a GM). A rather small sample size to be sure but not a horrible return on messaging investment, specially given that chess.com membership is very large and there are relatively few titled players. Then again I have not launched any diatribes against titled players ...


Ahh... the diatribe is launched only against ARROGANT titled players. If any titled players are offended by my comments, it is because they know I described THEM!

electricpawn

Chess is a competitive enterprise. IM's and GM's are the elite competitors. Arrogant and bizarre behavior is an option for people who can kick the asses of all comers. While not its laudable behavior, they owe nothing to you. If you don't like their behavior, stop buying their books and following the world championship cycles. And for that matter, do you think Albert Pujols or Brett Favre coach Little League versions of their sports? They arrogantly refuse, the bastards.Smile (Smiley face indicates that I used the naughty word in jest rather than anger.)

bosco714
paulgottlieb wrote:

If you were really serious, there are skilled teachers available for lessons, both on this site and on the ICC. But beware! Those skilled teachers might have critical things to say about some of your moves and some of your ideas. If the prospect of perhaps having your feelings hurt is too terrible, maybe you had better call the whole thing off.

In real life, one of the keys to improvement is that you must be totally objective and unsparing in your criticism of your own games. If you want to get better, you must go over your losses and identify where you went wrong. You have to figure out what kind of mistakes and bad thinking techniques are holding you back. Once you have identified your most common errors, you have to work hard to eradicate them. Once you have done this, the process starts all over again, just with a slightly more sophisticated class of mistakes.

Remember, every game you lose is because you screwed up! There is no other explanation. So your harshest critic should be yourself


I do not need instruction from you on how to study and learn! If you actually READ my original post at all, you would have understood that I WELCOME even the harshest criticisms. My professional line of work (i.e. my "day job") has entailed constant deluges of criticisms of the nit-pickiest sort! The difference is, those criticisms are administered with professionalism! They are administered with maturity. They are not insulting.

Do NOT patronize me by presuming that I haven't made every effort to learn about what is important to me! You didn't even carefully read my post, and that is disrespectful to me. Next time, pay attention to the words before you respond to them. Now, go and harshly criticize yourself for your nonsensical post. Good day.

bosco714
electricpawn wrote:

Chess is a competitive enterprise. [Agree.] IM's and GM's are the elite competitors. [Agree.] Arrogant and bizarre behavior is an option for people who can kick the ***** of all comers. [Disagree.] While not its laudable behavior [Agree.], they owe nothing to you [Agree.]. If you don't like their behavior, stop buying their books [Done.] and following the world championship cycles. [No.] And for that matter, do you think Albert Pujols or Brett Favre coach Little League versions of their sports? [Don't care.]

electricpawn
kramakintews wrote:

I have received very courteous replies from CMs, NMs, IMs, taking time out of their busy days of devotion to their passion to chitchat about non-chess stuff. Wish IM Reb were around to post his famous reply...


 HOGWASH!  (couldn't resist)

bosco714
kramakintews wrote:

I have received very courteous replies from CMs, NMs, IMs, taking time out of their busy days of devotion to their passion to chitchat about non-chess stuff. Wish IM Reb were around to post his famous reply...


This brings up a good point. One thing I MIGHT be guilty of is failing to understand just what it takes to achieve this title that I want to eventually attain. On the other hand, this is just one of many things that I'm trying to FIND OUT. One of my seemingly endless list of unanswerable questions.

electricpawn
kramakintews wrote:
electricpawn wrote:
kramakintews wrote:

I have received very courteous replies from CMs, NMs, IMs, taking time out of their busy days of devotion to their passion to chitchat about non-chess stuff. Wish IM Reb were around to post his famous reply...


 HOGWASH!  (couldn't resist)


Haha, funny! actually, I was thinking of the other one...


I'll let someone else have the pleasure. 

theoreticalboy
kramakintews wrote:
electricpawn wrote:
kramakintews wrote:

I have received very courteous replies from CMs, NMs, IMs, taking time out of their busy days of devotion to their passion to chitchat about non-chess stuff. Wish IM Reb were around to post his famous reply...


 HOGWASH!  (couldn't resist)


Haha, funny! actually, I was thinking of the other one, but the above is apropos


apropos what?

Cystem_Phailure
bosco714 wrote: You didn't even carefully read my post, and that is disrespectful to me.

Is that all this is?  Just another guy who walks through life with a chip on his shoulder and a scorepad to keep track of who he thinks is disrespectful to him?  I'll bet it's not just chess pros, is it?  Let me guess:  teachers, metermaids, checkout clerks, auto mechanics, they're all elitist and rude to you, right?

batgirl

I'm not sure I understand the situation.  If I tried to wire my house and ended up having to call in an electician and he says, "what idiot wired this mess?" I wouldn't take it as being elitist on his part, but a pretty valid question from someone who demands more in a area where he's a professional.  By the same token, if I then asked hims to show me the techniques to wiring and he said, "go read a book," I wouldn't take it as condescending, elitist, arrogant or even impolite - as I would consider my expectation for a professional to bestow upon me his knowledge gratis, arrogant, impolite and unrealistic on my part.

And if I were to offer to pay him for his knowledge and he declined, well, that's just business.

But, as I said, I'm not sure I understand the situation.

svenfromntbym

I agree with Batgirl, If you want help from a titled player, or even a very strong un-titled player, expect to pay. If they choose to spend even a little of their time helping you for free, great! If not, they have zero obligation to you, no hard feelings, back to chesstactics.org...

jesterville

I think the OP is pissed about strong players who have the superiority complex, and enough testosterone to say any crap that comes to mind.

It it makes him feel any better, Magnus Carlsen would prefer to be the #1 Footballer rather than #1 chess player. Why? Because the game is only followed by a small population, his response was.

The point being that the chess cosmos is a minuscule pond...the big fish in these small ponds like to think they are important...but they can't move or shake anything. Wink

polydiatonic

Sir, I do believer you are what we sometimes call an:

ATTENTION TROLL

in these parts.

May I suggest a nice breakfast to help you maintain  your equilibrium during the course of a day filled with strong players who don't care about your feelings.

But for I the most part I must say your whining and, might I say entitled and arrogant attitude just sort of makes me sick:

cocteau
I am an average player with no ambitions but to enjoy the game. Many years ago I played a GM in rd3 of a 5rd swiss. The GM had unexpectedly lost in the previous round and ends up playing me on 2/3 on a cold Sunday morning. Obviously the reason he came to Scotland was just to win the money. From the outset of our game he was completely disinterested reading a paper and eating his breakfast, barely glancing at the board. I thought, right, you will probably beat me but I WILL make you work. My victory would be to get his attention and get him to put his paper down. I achieved this minor victory on move 26 and he gradually wore me down and won on move 74. After the game he apologised for his behaviour and gave me the most instructive postmortem I have ever had.GM's etc are human under the exterior but you don't become a titled player without a belief in your talent. This may come across as arrogance but is actually supreme confidence. What player graded more than 500 points above their opponent hasn't tried to impose their dominance through body language and other psychological tricks. It's human nature, don't take on the silverback until you are mentally strong enough to withstand the intimidation never mind reaching the actual battle.
-X-
bosco714 wrote:
padman wrote:

Don't let it get to you. Just make a life-size dummy of them, slap it around a bit and move on.


And "move on" to what?

 


Something, anything really, other than posting pointless threads complaining about the attitudes of titled players.

I suspect that among titled players you will find some that are arrogant, some that are whiny, a lot that are nice etc....

If the OP allowed the writer to vent I guess it wasn't pointless. But that is the only point IMHO.

Natalia_Pogonina

This is especially true for many IM coaches. They have the inferiority complex since some of their students/friends have made it to GM while they haven't. To compensate for this, they make fun of GMs' mistakes or even take advantage of amateurs. For example, one Russian IM (widely regarded as the best chess coach in the world) is particularly fond of collecting grandmasters' mistakes and pointing out that "anyone knows that in (then follows a rook endgame which most masters see for the first time in their life) one is supposed to do that"...but "GM X has obviously not read my book (as it if is the only source of knowledge in the world), so he blundered horribly with". :) When you are reading such books or communicating with the authors, you feel like someone is trying to convince you that you are a hopeless moron who doesn't understand even the basics. :)

Some "ordinary" GMs who feel like they should have become top players also act in an arrogant way, but this case is less widespread.

planeden

I can see it now, look at the arrogance.  IM coaches are inferior and even "ordinary" GMs are not top players.  I may have to just stop playing chess lest I fall into the trap of becoming an elitist titled player. 

Note:  I certainly hope that this is esily read as a joke, even if I am the only one who finds it funny. 

Terricotta

PREPARE FOR A LOOONG SPEECH: People tend to have an air of arrogance when they've become exceptionally great at a skill. Im afraid it comes as somewhat of a reward for all the hard work they've put in to achieve their goal. This isn't exactly a chess issue, but a personal morality and character issue. You'll find this kind of behavior in several fields of expertise. My point is, there's nothing you can do, just let those who have reached high goals, enjoy their achievements, even if it's rude to others.

 

ILL GET SIDE-TRACED HERE :Now, you say you're stuck in a rut 1500-1600 rating.  You shouldn't get discouraged you know why? because, becomming a GM doesnt rely on luck, like getting famous or something, if you tried hard enough, you can always get there. I used to draw like puke, but when I was drawing, I  didn't THINK of my drawings as puke, and that's what gave me the encouragement to continue practiceing. You shouldn't think you're stuck in a boxed rating range, instead, you should give yourself little goals to gain like 15 points a day or something, that way, you never discouraged. The time in which you wish to achieve a goal, is completely dependant on the time you're willing to give to the subject. So, just continue to play chess, ignore the arrogance of certain players, and your rating WILL get much higher.

LONG SPEECH OVER! :)

bosco714
Cystem_Phailure wrote:
bosco714 wrote: You didn't even carefully read my post, and that is disrespectful to me.

Is that all this is?  Just another guy who walks through life with a chip on his shoulder and a scorepad to keep track of who he thinks is disrespectful to him?  I'll bet it's not just chess pros, is it?  Let me guess:  teachers, metermaids, checkout clerks, auto mechanics, they're all elitist and rude to you, right?


Answering your questions in order: No. No. No, no, no, no, and no.