Paul Morphy is the greatest player of all time.

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BlunderLots
ylblai2 wrote:

smithmike wrote:

"Morphy was so far ahead his last challenge to the world was to offer a pawn and a move. ..."

No record has been found of such a challenge actually being made. To be at all meaningful, such a challenge would have had to be well-publicized with arrangements for a challenger to at least be compensated for his time and travel expenses.

Morphy made a challenge to face any New York player (with Thompson specifically in mind) to a match with pawn+move odds.

"I see fit to challenge any New York players to a match at a pawn and move. ... Do not, however, infer that there exists the smallest degree of ill feelings between myself and most of the New York players. The truth is my challenge is directed solely to Thompson who possesses no small amount of chess vanity." — Morphy

Eventually, Thompson agreed to play Morphy with knight odds. Even missing a knight from the opening in every game, Morphy won the match. :)

Also, from Encyclopedia Brittanica: "He returned to the United States in 1859 and issued a challenge, offering to face any player in the world at odds of pawn and move (where Morphy would play Black, thus giving up the first move, and would play minus one pawn). When there was no response, Morphy abandoned his public chess career."

BlunderLots
Morphysrevenges wrote:

If we could bring Paul back to life, give him all the tools used by players today (i.e. engines, databases, etc.)  - and a few months or so to get back up to speed - LOOK THE F.. OUT! 

 

He would be kicking butts and taking names.........................

I agree.

Morphy was playing at a master level without the help of any engines or decent theory.

In my opinion, most of today's players would struggle to match Morphy's level of play, if you took away all the training and study they've done using engines and modern theory.

Which isn't a knock against today's players, or a knock against chess study. Both have advanced greatly over the years. Today, players are stronger than ever.

But it does show how strong a chess mind Morphy was, considering he was playing intuitively at a level that today's players generally spend years studying and practicing, with computer assistance, to reach.

Combine his intuition with a chess engine for him to study with? He'd be a monster to face over the board.

dashkee94

As far as books go, I'm making the assumption that Paul had access to any chess book in New Orleans--not just his father's or his uncle's library, but Rousseau's as well as others.  I'm sure that if Paul wanted to read or book or borrow a periodical, people would be eager to cooperate.  So I think it's pretty safe to assume that Morphy had read or been exposed to anything that was worth reading at that time.  But a point that a lot of people seem to miss about PM is in 1852 Morphy (aged 14) gave away all his books and sets--the books "couldn't teach him anything," and he only kept the silver and gold set his parents gave him for his 13th birthday.  Between age 14 and 20 Morphy played almost no chess, and the few games he did play were against players no where near him in strength.  For him to come out of retirement and play as well as he did in 1857--that just amazes me.  When you talk about an effortless rise to master, this guy wrote the book.

kindaspongey
Justs99171 wrote:
ylblai2 wrote:

... When Morphy went to New York and Europe, there were already existing books by Philidor and Staunton. Also, a German handbook. ...

I own both of those books and did Morphy even read them?

 

dashkee94 wrote:

... I think it's pretty safe to assume that Morphy had read or been exposed to anything that was worth reading at that time.  But a point that a lot of people seem to miss about PM is in 1852 Morphy (aged 14) gave away all his books and sets-- ...

Lawson's Morphy biography indicated that Morphy acquired a few chess books in 1853. Lawson included a report of a Maurian quote:

"... During the two years that we remained at college together, Morphy played a considerable number of games with me at odds gradually diminishing as I improved. ... Mr. Morphy had the following Chess books with him, the only ones, as far as I know that he ever possessed until the New York Chess Congress in 1857. Horwitz and Kling's Chess Studies, which he pronounced a very good and useful book for students, although not free from error; the B. Vols composing the collection of Kieseritzky's La Regence, and Staunton's Chess Tournament. ..."

kindaspongey
BlunderLots wrote:
ylblai2 wrote:

smithmike wrote:

"Morphy was so far ahead his last challenge to the world was to offer a pawn and a move. ..."

No record has been found of such a challenge actually being made. To be at all meaningful, such a challenge would have had to be well-publicized with arrangements for a challenger to at least be compensated for his time and travel expenses.

Morphy made a challenge to face any New York player (with Thompson specifically in mind) to a match with pawn+move odds.

"I see fit to challenge any New York players to a match at a pawn and move. ... Do not, however, infer that there exists the smallest degree of ill feelings between myself and most of the New York players. The truth is my challenge is directed solely to Thompson who possesses no small amount of chess vanity." — Morphy ...

There is a big difference between a challenge to New York and a "challenge to the world".

BlunderLots wrote:

... from Encyclopedia Brittanica: "He returned to the United States in 1859 and issued a challenge, offering to face any player in the world at odds of pawn and move (where Morphy would play Black, thus giving up the first move, and would play minus one pawn). When there was no response, Morphy abandoned his public chess career."

Sadly, there are many misconceptions in chess history. Lawson's biography quoted many accounts of Morphy's abandoned chess career. A challenge to the world is conspicuously absent from the accounts quoted from the time.

"... Mr. Morphy has again and again declared ... that he would play no more even matches without having been first conquered at odds. ... He has said that ... the larger portion of his future years would be devoted to graver studies and more serious avocations. ..." - New York Saturday Press, October 20, 1860

As can be seen, the playing of a match at odds with Morphy was an obstacle placed by him in the path of those who sought a match of level games.

Senior-Lazarus_Long

Morphy may very well have been the best ever. He certainly makes the short list. ;p

master_oogway
smithmike wrote:

It's not who he beat or the lack of competition that defines Morphy. It's the moves and ideas that he had at a time when there was no theory available. When analysing his moves they are as accurate as the modern day chess engines. Now that definitely is impressive. Try playing a 1000 rated player and see if you come up with moves as accurate as an engine.

^ true indeed. 

batgirl
ylblai2 wrote:
Sadly, there are many misconceptions in chess history. Lawson's biography quoted many accounts of Morphy's abandoned chess career. A challenge to the world is conspicuously absent from the accounts quoted from the time.

"... Mr. Morphy has again and again declared ... that he would play no more even matches without having been first conquered at odds. ... He has said that ... the larger portion of his future years would be devoted to graver studies and more serious avocations. ..." - New York Saturday Press, October 20, 1860

As can be seen, the playing of a match at odds with Morphy was an obstacle placed by him in the path of those who sought a match of level games.

I feel that's as eloquent a way to express Morphy's intentions as any.

crossfire125

Morphy was so great... It makes me sad to read how he spent the last years of his life. Walking all alone in the streets of New Orleans... And dying all alone. Kasparov and Fischer were absolutely right about his chess genius!

Chadzo

indurain
crossfire251 wrote:

Morphy was so great... It makes me sad to read how he spent the last years of his life. Walking all alone in the streets of New Orleans... And dying all alone. Kasparov and Fischer were absolutely right about his chess genius!

It is sad to think how Morphy's final years were. He was like a brightly burning comet in his younger days and maybe he expended so much concentration during that time, that his mind simply went in to overdrive as he got older? Like Bobby Fischer, Morphy's entire life seems to be captured by his chess career. Rightly or wrongly their chess careers defined both men. In Morphy's case, his obvious academic ability was not utilised as fully as it might have been after he stopped playing chess. He could well have gone on to successfully practise as a lawyer, but apparently it was not to be.

andyduck716
Rumo75 wrote:

Paul Morphy beat someone with a playing strenght that can be estimated around 1300-1400. Impressive.

You don't know what you're talking about. Adolf Anderssen was his best opponent with an rating of around 2000-2100 and Morphy beat him 6-2 in the first match and the second match 6-0

ThebestA9player

adolf hitler lost

ThebestA9player

ikr stop staring at me with that look

0peoplelikethis

Morphy played far better chess in blindfold simuls, than people in this thread who criticize him, will ever do otb.

mpaetz
pfren wrote:

Well, take as example "The Opera Game".

- Black managed to play no less than three very bad moves within the first seven. What are the odds for any semi-decent modern player doing the same?

- The game became immortal because Morphy missed 8.Bxf7+ Qxf7 9.Qxb7, which ends the game in a pedestrian way. Or he may not have missed it, and he was just playing carelessly, as he knew that he was more probable being hit by a meteorite than losing to that woodpusher.

     Morphy was an opera devotee, attending every performance of the New Orleans Opera. Box seats at one of Europe's premier opera houses was a great treat for him; it's likely he didn't pay much attention to the chess game the Duke of Brunswick sprang on him unexpectedly after inviting him to share his box. It's not likely that he missed the pedestrian win; playing for the spectacular attack was just part of the game's ethos at that time.

WALKINGLOSS
mpaetz wrote:
pfren wrote:

Well, take as example "The Opera Game".

- Black managed to play no less than three very bad moves within the first seven. What are the odds for any semi-decent modern player doing the same?

- The game became immortal because Morphy missed 8.Bxf7+ Qxf7 9.Qxb7, which ends the game in a pedestrian way. Or he may not have missed it, and he was just playing carelessly, as he knew that he was more probable being hit by a meteorite than losing to that woodpusher.

     Morphy was an opera devotee, attending every performance of the New Orleans Opera. Box seats at one of Europe's premier opera houses was a great treat for him; it's likely he didn't pay much attention to the chess game the Duke of Brunswick sprang on him unexpectedly after inviting him to share his box. It's not likely that he missed the pedestrian win; playing for the spectacular attack was just part of the game's ethos at that time.

But if he were in a situation where there were a relative challenge that could actually punish him for "playing to suit the ethos" wouldn't and play  3 terrible moves 7 moves in, the Opera Game becomes another draw.

WALKINGLOSS

You cannot use your imagination to just assume that Morphy would automatically maintain his spectacular ideas AND augment the ideas of the engine alike. Morphy's competition is extremely crucial to determining how good he is. If you're playing 1200's at a 2000+ level, you obviously will be playing at 95+% regularly because you pretty much have to wait 15 moves AT MOST before your inferior opponent makes a bad move that can give you a decisive advantage.

 

Using this logic, if GothamChess played chess in the 1860's and had access to handbooks that few others had from the best legends of chess at that point, he'd be smacking everyone easily simply because they're booty cheeks modern-day. Obviously, Morphy is much better than Gotham because of his innovations in the name of chess, but you cannot credit him for understanding how to survive and attack in chess, when it was apparent that many of his opponents did not. 

 

 

WALKINGLOSS

I watched a random Paul Morphy match, in which he squared off against a supposed 2300 rated chess player. 2300. By move 12, this 2300 rated blundered TWICE and lost hastily. Do you know what someone would say to you if you told them you blundered twice in the opening? "This is why you need to see what your move does: look for checks, captures, and threats." They'd think you are a 900 rated. The ratings were EXTREMELY inflated back then, and in reality, many of Morpy's opponents would be 1200 rated while he would be much -- MUCH -- higher.

mpaetz

     WALKINGLOSS: My point was that Morphy didn't take that game seriously, and probably looked for some spectacular way to punish the Duke of Brunswick for trick him into a chess game by inviting him to share his box at the opera. 

      Naturally, the Duke and a lot of Morphy's other opponents didn't know any opening theory as there wasn't much in their day. And positional ideas started with Morphy so those were unknown to the rest of the world. Morphy sought out the best opponents he could find in Europe, including the man (Andersson) generally regarded as #1 in the world, and handily defeated all comers.

     Incidentally, ratings weren't  invented until after World War II, the system had to be fine-tuned a couple of times after that, and is totally unreliable guesses for players from previous eras.