The Unknown Morphy: was he really that strong?

I thought you were only a walking distance from it.  

klimski wrote:

Yeah I can't believe it.

Batgirl, you are being overly generous to the OP in this thread, which is probably the least informative bit of writing that I have ever encountered with respect to any chess player living or dead, with the possible exception of those that attempt to vindicate Bobby Fischer's political views during the last years of his life.

To help you out, it's part of the Dr. William Barclay Stephens Collection of the California Academy of Sciences in San Francisco and it looks like this:

It is ugly.

Morphy played at a time when chess players were not as strong as they are today.

That goes for just about every sport/industry.  Technology & genetics improve & so do all of the players.  In 400 years people will be saying, "ya but Tiger Woods played at a time when golfers weren't as good as today."

I've never understood this argument - and it's why comparing players of different centuries is a bit goofy imo.

Is this one of those threads where online trolls trash on accomplished chess legends of the past?

The OP is someone who as far as I know, always defends the old players so it is a complete mystery why he created this thread to "trash" Morphy. Unless it was for troll purposes.....

He was still a better player than you ever will be, so your argument is invalid.

Probably...

yureesystem wrote:

"... he had a chance to play Kolisch in Paris, 1860 but decided to play De Rievre, a player he beat many times. ..."

Morphy refused to play a match with Kolisch in 1863, long after his publicly announced decision to play no more chess matches. He may well have played a friendly game here and there around that time, but I know of no 1863 match played by Morphy against anybody. He had, for a time, contemplated making an exception to his no-match policy, but decided against it after Kolisch's unimpressive results against Anderssen and Paulsen.

yureesystem wrote:

"... There was the very strong Anderssen, the much improve Paulsen, Kolisch, he was very strong master  and the young master Hirschfeld and he was very gifted attacker and Neumann, he is also another strong attacker and Mackenzie and finally Steinitz."

You can have any opinion that you want about the time after Morphy decided to stop playing matches. As I understand it, the verdict of history is about Morphy's admittedly brief time of serious chess activity from 1857 to 1859.

yureesystem wrote:

 "... Morphy ... Kolisch ... they set a date and a place to meet."

Source?

@ yibla2, Batgirl and Silman had wrote an article last year. You can also review it in chessgames.com. I believe they were to meet in Paris 1863 but  Morphy cancel the match. Morphy also refuse to play Paulsen a match again in 1862 or 1863? I not sure the year.

 I am here to learn from strong players and anyone who like to share ideas and knowledge, you can't learn something if you  don't ask. I am asking a  rhetorical question " Was Morphy really that strong." I say, yes and no, Morphy was GM level and very gifted chess genius, when you are very gifted  you most people don't work that hard or develop their talent, Morphy never  investigated  deeply in the depth of chess like Steinitz; Morphy rely on his natural talent to win games, and sometime he played very sloppy chess, like  this one.  

Lowenthal played so badly and a sad display of endgame technique, any expert rated 2000 uscf would of won it easily. Morphy must had a off day, his horrible move 14...b5?? is positional blunder by this great chess genius, seeing seven moves would not been a problem for a great chess genius like Morphy, that day he was pushing wood around.

i think morphy is that strong?

yeah :)

ok

Gunvald123 wrote: 

The thing that made Morphy a chess genius is maybe not so much about his absolute, but rather his relative playing strength. Today's chess elite is a product of a higly competitive environment, offering a player from a very young age to compete regularly against opponents of similar strength, allowing the gifted ones to climb the ladder.

In Morphys days, there were no engines, not much literature or coaching or theory of any sort whatsover, and the few people that played chess were not exactly on a GM level. Just browse through some of his games to get a sense of how limited the understanding in these days was: His opponents obviously were oblivious to such concepts like king safety, piece development and the like. as a result the typical ending position of a morphy game has his opponents king naked and his pieces still on the back rank.

But Morphy almost always delivered the beatdown in stunning fashion. One really has to aknowledge the genius capable of getting to that level of play pretty much on his own.  

Morphy could of had opportunity to played this great chess geniuses, Anderssen, Paulsen, Nuemann, Kolisch, Blackburne, De Vere, Zukertort, Gunsberg, Chigorin, Tarrasch, Pillsbury, Steinitz and Lasker. I now believe Morphy would beat Kolisch in a match, but wonder about Steinitz, I think Steinitz would of won it.

well, we don't know!