I am sure that many have the same opinion as me:
Karpov was perhaps never as good as Fischer in 1972, but Kasparov -Fischer would have been an exciting match, with unclear outcome.
Which Elite Chess Player of All Time Has the Most Natural Talent?
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Tetsuoshima, I am not speaking Japanese (as you probably do), I was just 'poking', and looking for some name similar, but easier to grasp: I once liked the movie 'Tootsie' with Dustin Hoffman.
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The discussion about natural talent can never be decided, because it is so hard to measure... It is possible that Fischer had a greater taloent than Larsen, and Spasski etc. What is absolutely certian is that he had a passion for chess that you would hardly find again.
People who have met Fischer often say that he had a child-like personality (doing chess so much, you may forget about all sorrows that make men more and more serious with time), and that it was easy to like him for this reason.
I haven't followed this entire thread, but are we ignoring Capablanca? Isn't he generally (and traditionally) considered among the top in regard to natural talent?
I would also like to add that HATEPOSITIONALCHESS's comments about Morphy are well made and should be given strong consideration.
Lastly, Fischer had tremendous natural talent, but it was coupled with relentless work and study. How much either of those contributed to his success is impossible to say.
schlechter55 napisał:
The (odd) habit to drink in company the heavy stuff (Wodka!) was (is) shared by many who come from the Soviet culture.
Not only Soviet, the same applies to Polish culture.
Eastern Slavs believe if you drink alone you are addicted but in a company you are simply a good friend.
It even goes further: there is no good excuse but driving a car for declining to drink in a company. A person who does not drink is frequently considered strange (some even call them mad).
Yes, other people drink, too. For instance, Fins (it is sooo cold there in Winter, another 'excuse'). Other people don't drink so much Wodka, but lots of beer (Czechs, Belgians, Irish, some English), some Germans drink too much, too: not so visibly, because they do it at home.
I didn't mean to say that drinking was a 'Soviet habit'. But during the 70 years living in one state, the Wodka became popular in all parts of the country of course.
The most unnatural talent exists in the final algorithm in the bowels of some future supercomputer, unfortunately.
Fortunately, there will not be ever a 'final' algorithm for chess, because there exist more different chess games than particles in the Universe.
Some say that Anatoly Karpov was the closest to the kernel of the essence of what chess is about. Yet they complain about that boring top flight consistency of his games in the 70s & 80s. Learned this fact from baseball when Henry Aaron broke all the lifetime career hitting records passing the over touted careers of other not so durable heroes.
People like ruthless rebels, the spectacle, not hard workers and the hidden beauty that only the knowledgable can see.
schlechter55 wrote:
People like ruthless rebels, the spectacle, not hard workers and the hidden beauty that only the knowledgable can see.
Schlecter55, how true that is. The cult of personality.
Jul 19, 2013
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#132
Garry Kasparov solved a 2500 elo rating chess puzle over night the day that he learned the game and then he knew that he had to play chess.
TKACHS wrote:
Some say that Anatoly Karpov was the closest to the kernel of the essence of what chess is about. Yet they complain about that boring top flight consistency of his games in the 70s & 80s. Learned this fact from baseball when Henry Aaron broke all the lifetime career hitting records passing the over touted careers of other not so durable heroes.
In 1923, Babe Ruth broke the record for most home runs in a season. That same year, he also broke the record for highest batting average. There is a third record he broke that year that most people don't know about: In 1923, Babe Ruth struck out more times than any other player in Major League Baseball.
I liken this to looking at certain players' styles in chess. You have to make certain concessions in order to obtain the benefits you think will give you the advantage to win. Tal did this. Petrosian and Karpov also, each in their own way.
In my opinion, Capablanca had the most natural talent. However, I think my opinion for this conclusion is based on the idea that he really never studied the game, yet had such intuitive insight into the game he became a dominant world champion.
However, this isn't quite fair to Kasparov, Karpov, Fischer, or others. We may never know how much raw talent they had because in today's chess era, raw talent is quickly overpowered by dedicated study. I don't believe Capablanca could survive - let alone dominate - in today's chess atmosphere as he did around 1910-1930.
I suppose because I can't really distinguish between talent and work for players of later eras (How much of Karpov and Kasparov's brilliance was brilliance, and how much was dedicated Soviet training? How much of Fischer's brilliance was brilliance, and how much was monomaniacal study?), I default to choosing the player whose brilliance alone I can measure with a WCC title.
If I had to pick a player from the later eras, however, I would probably pick Mikhail Tal or Vishy Anand... more on reputation and hearsay than anything because I'm not really qualified to make a judgement on their games verses, for example, Karpov's.
Whoever put in the least effort? I'd be more impressed with whoever worked the hardest
oneeight7even wrote:
Forget chess theory and chess era. Who has the most natural chess talent?
Capablanca.
Jul 20, 2013
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#138
It's commonly accepted that the most naturaly talanted player of all time is either Fischer or Capablanca
mike_tal wrote:
Whoever put in the least effort? I'd be more impressed with whoever worked the hardest
I agree that hard work and dedication are more impressive. But the question is who has the most natural talent, not what impresses me personally. Regarding this question specifically, I can't really choose any of the later players because I simply don't know where their natural talent ended and their hard work began ...
Atleast you get it Tetsuo...
...I guess it is a shame that Fischer didn't slug it out with Karpov and Kasparov, he could have really nullified any debate today, perhaps had chosen to...even if the 3 of them were closely matched, they still would have all towered above their contemporaries...it is what elite GM's do, who are more talented than the rest...