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Chess.com Disconnects & Adjourn Part 3 - Please give your opinion!

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erik

after going throughall of http://www.chess.com/forum/view/community/chesscom-needs-your-input---live-chess-games-adjourned and http://www.chess.com/forum/view/community/chesscom-proposal-for-fixing-game-disconnectsadjourned-games ,

here is my final proposal in as concise of language as possible:

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if a player disconnects they can reconnect within 90 seconds and then they will auto-resume their game with a 10 second penalty. a player cannot resume after a 3rd disconnect in the same game - it is an immediate loss.

if 90 seconds pass and the player has not reconnected then the opponent has 3 options: claim win; abort (the game stays in your game archive as "no winner"); adjourn. (if the game is 4 ply or less, then it is auto-aborted.)

if a game is adjourned then when both players are online at the same time then the game will show up in the SEEKS panel. either player can click to RESUME if the other player is not playing. if the non-disconnecting player clicks RESUME then the other player has 2 options: play, or resign (if they disconnect it is a resign). if the original disconnecting player clicks RESUME, then the other player has 2 options: play, or abort. if the game does not finish after 7 days then the non-disconnecting player gets the win.

if both players disconnect within the same 90 second window then they both have 90 seconds to resume with the same logic above. if neither resumes, then the game is automatically adjourned. if that game is not finished after 7 days then it is aborted. double-abort games are NOT counted toward "disconnector" status. (NOTE: we may make this 120 seconds until our servers are more stable.)

players will be able to set in their preferences what to automatically do after disconnect games (claim win, adjourn, abort) so they don't have to choose each time if they want to have a consistent reply.

if a player has more than 20% of their games as disconnects then they are flagged as a "disconnector" in the system. disconnectors cannot accept open seeks. they can post seeks, but they will show up with a red color in the seeks panel. (this will NOT come into effect until Chess.com fixes stability issues and disconnects are no longer our fault :) .)

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i realize that this is not going to please everyone (it's impossible). some of you argued for having the game time just continue with a maximum. but honestly, as we talked through it we feel it is a very bad user experience to have people waiting around for 10 minutes when their opponent is gone. (we will also address "hate-waiting" in the future!) also, some of you have disconnect issues because of chess.com or your computer/browser. we know this and are sympathtic to you. we are working REALLY hard to make live chess more stable. we intend to launch a few things when we launch this that will make reconnecting much faster.

i'm open to hearing new thoughts and opinions. if you have all ready stated your opinion in the other threads, please don't just post the same opinion unless you have new information or something :)

thank you all for your help and patience!

bondiggity

I thought the 10% disconnect was more reasonable IMO, but I know that some might find it insulting to be flagged as a disconnector, but personally I have a good connection and want to finish games and would like to know if there is a good chance that a player will disconnect.

 

My other comment is that the 10 sec penalty seems kind of silly to have consistent for every game type: (i.e., 10 seconds is nothing if a player still has 20 seconds left but devastating if they have 20 seconds left in a no increment game). Therefore I think it would be more reasonable to possibly some other system, maybe using percentages or whatnot. 

 

*And just to clear something up, the player has to click either resume or resign, they can't just play other games, correct? Because that is a problem I am currently having, that my opponent refuses to accept the challenge from our adjourned game.

erik

10% might be more reasonable in the future. we'll see.

10 seconds just keeps it from being a stalling tactic if you are near the end of the game and need time to think. i'm open to making this number be 0 seconds :)

correct - if you click RESUME they will have to answer the call and cannot play other games.

gumpty

Im happy, its well thought out and should work out mate!

erik

anyone else? last chance to weigh in...

David_Grakovsky

I think you have some nice ideas Erik. Time to put them in action!

Olimar

I dont like the whole flagging people as red as laggers/disconnectors.  It reminds me of the "Banlist" system in warcraft three and it has become a nightmare.  In all honesty... disconnecting is bad for YOU not your potential opponents... so why would it really matter whether you disc or not.  If I are ahead by 20 points and Idisconnect... you win (assumign I do not return) so it isn't hurting you, but hurting me.  I just do not see the need for this as all

Just my opinion.

erik
Olimar wrote:

I dont like the whole flagging people as red as laggers/disconnectors. It reminds me of the "Banlist" system in warcraft three and it has become a nightmare. In all honesty... disconnecting is bad for YOU not your potential opponents... so why would it really matter whether you disc or not. If I are ahead by 20 points and Idisconnect... you win (assumign I do not return) so it isn't hurting you, but hurting me. I just do not see the need for this as all

Just my opinion.


i totally disagree. i didn't join a game so that i could win on time after waiting around for 2 minutes. i came to play chess!

Mainline_Novelty
erik wrote:

after going throughall of http://www.chess.com/forum/view/community/chesscom-needs-your-input---live-chess-games-adjourned and http://www.chess.com/forum/view/community/chesscom-proposal-for-fixing-game-disconnectsadjourned-games ,

here is my final proposal in as concise of language as possible:

------------------------------------------------------------

if a player disconnects they can reconnect within 90 seconds and then they will auto-resume their game with a 10 second penalty. a player cannot resume after a 3rd disconnect in the same game - it is an immediate loss.

if 90 seconds pass and the player has not reconnected then the opponent has 3 options: claim win; abort (the game stays in your game archive as "no winner"); adjourn. (if the game is 4 ply or less, then it is auto-aborted.)

if a game is adjourned then when both players are online at the same time then the game will show up in the SEEKS panel. either player can click to RESUME if the other player is not playing. if the non-disconnecting player clicks RESUME then the other player has 2 options: play, or resign (if they disconnect it is a resign). if the original disconnecting player clicks RESUME, then the other player has 2 options: play, or abort. if the game does not finish after 7 days then the non-disconnecting player gets the win.

if both players disconnect within the same 90 second window then they both have 90 seconds to resume with the same logic above. if neither resumes, then the game is automatically adjourned. if that game is not finished after 7 days then it is aborted. double-abort games are NOT counted toward "disconnector" status. (NOTE: we may make this 120 seconds until our servers are more stable.)

players will be able to set in their preferences what to automatically do after disconnect games (claim win, adjourn, abort) so they don't have to choose each time if they want to have a consistent reply.

if a player has more than 20% of their games as disconnects then they are flagged as a "disconnector" in the system. disconnectors cannot accept open seeks. they can post seeks, but they will show up with a red color in the seeks panel. (this will NOT come into effect until Chess.com fixes stability issues and disconnects are no longer our fault :) .)

------------------------------------------------------------

i realize that this is not going to please everyone (it's impossible). some of you argued for having the game time just continue with a maximum. but honestly, as we talked through it we feel it is a very bad user experience to have people waiting around for 10 minutes when their opponent is gone. (we will also address "hate-waiting" in the future!) also, some of you have disconnect issues because of chess.com or your computer/browser. we know this and are sympathtic to you. we are working REALLY hard to make live chess more stable. we intend to launch a few things when we launch this that will make reconnecting much faster.

i'm open to hearing new thoughts and opinions. if you have all ready stated your opinion in the other threads, please don't just post the same opinion unless you have new information or something :)

thank you all for your help and patience!


 7 days?????????? Whoo would ever play a live chess game in 7 days??

erik
aabbccdd wrote:

thank you all for your help and patience!


 7 days?????????? Whoo would ever play a live chess game in 7 days??


friends who only met up 6 days later.

firestare500

sucks *turns around in disgust*

 

    Really, you have thought this through very well. I think we should keep it as 20%. I think we should have like an auto win after mabye 10 days if the disconnected player does not play or connect for ten days

andy-inactive

It's been thought through about as thoroughly as possible; I am sure Erik has read literally hundreds of opinions/ideas regarding this system. He's trying to implement something that will make *most* people happy. Something that will make it a better overall experience. The simple fact is that the new system he has discussed will be far better than what we currently have. That is progress and that is good. :) I am sure tweaks can be made in future too, after the new system is tested and any possible flaws have been identified. Things will be better.

exigentsky

Ok, you've made your choice and it's true you can't please everyone. This system takes the philosophy that after a disconnect, the original agreement is void. My system took the philosophy that the agreement persisted even after a disconnect, barring extreme circumstances (10 minutes without return). Both systems have their plusses and logic.

However, why  complicate matters with the 10 second penalty? I assume it's to avoid people disconnecting several times intentionally, but it doesn't change much The need for simplicity seems even more important. It's a bit like an inconsistent mixture between the 90 second system you proposed initially and the 10 minute maximum system I proposed. It's already hard enough to restart the router, possibly reboot, and reconnect in 90 seconds. Instead, why not limit it to one disconnect per game? 

BTW: I just read your early response. Sorry about that.

andy-inactive

I think it's pretty clear that limiting abuse is the priority at this point. Basically, making someone have to wait 7 days for their win when they are 1 move away from checkmate in a 3/0 game really does suck. This new system will address that. So.. the new system has definitely got my approval Erik.Smile

jsansom19

        I think this is a reasonable solution to the problem. As Andy stated earlier, "...better than what we currently have." I think that most of the people who have a problem with it are the ones who will be flagged. Either way, it is still, by far, the best site on the "net" to play chess, and honestly if it didn't change I would still play here. Keep up the good work!

Hugh_T_Patterson

You really put together a well assembled plan! Thank you again for all your hard work and that of your associates.

Olimar

erik.... waiting around for 2 minutes.. cmon you need a better reason than that :P at least say 5 minutes :)  I agree with the antiabuse measures and I like the ability to reconnect and re-enter the game.  I also understand that if most of chess.com is OK with this then its going to happen.  I just remmeber when I used to have an awful internet and would disconnect every 30 minutes (literally to the second).  For people like this I guess well times quick games and correspondence chess is the way to go!

Once again just my opinion, I GREATLY respect the work that you are doing and I appreciate it.

erik

there is no better reason than providing a superior user experience, and having people wait is the WORST user experience on the web. :)

mq1982

I think this is great.

It brings chess.com-live into line with many of the other best "live" chess sites and a great step forward.

Nice rules Erik.

As a side note idea (just an idea): could new rules be voted on?  4 or 5 options on the vote page?  E.g. here we could have a 10%, 20%, 15% option for a disconnector?

Just an idea :-)

Mike

rileyriley

I don't think I will fall into the 20% disconnector category (I can usually make it back on within 2 minutes) but I think you should be prepared to give refunds to premium members who will be flagged.

 

Thanks for all your work!  It's exciting to see a company taking so much input from its customers.