Chess.com FAQs and Discussion on Cheating

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erik

costelus and jg27pyth - take your discussion to private messages and leave the hostility off the forums.

JG27Pyth
erik wrote:

costelus and jg27pyth - take your discussion to private messages and leave the hostility off the forums.


Sorry. I guess that got a bit excessive. I think when one finds oneself cutting and pasting large chunks of wikipedia it's time to step back and, errr, rewind. Embarassed

costelus

Yes, PerfectGent: to find a good move, it does not take only hours of thinking, you must also know something about chess. Like, for instance, playing an IQP, you should know how to play that position. You can't be ~1200 ELO and still, find the right moves in an IQP position. Even more knowledge is required for endings.

Analyzing correspondence games from the past revealed that they are not so different from OTB games. They also contain mistakes, even tactical mistakes, even at the highest level (world champions). 

There are also examples of games and opening lines for which nobody before the computers could find a correct move, with hundreds of hours of analysis. Even if the term "nobody" included guys like Fischer or Kasparov. 

LATITUDE
erik wrote:

costelus and jg27pyth - take your discussion to private messages and leave the hostility off the forums.


OPEN FORUM OPEN FORUM OPEN FORUM OPEN FORUM

bullrock

Given:

1) Quiet, positional game

2) One player matches a modern chess engine's best moves with 90% accuracy and top two moves with 100% accuracy.

3) Same player has multiple games played at this same level of accuracy.

4) Player was not found to be cheating.

Conclusion:

The admins of this site must have contacted this player and in some manner this player demonstrated his chess-playing abilities (this is known to be a part of the cheat-detection process) to such a degree that further steps were deemed unnecessary.  So, to Costelus, I would say that any player playing at this level should definitely be reported and if the account remains open, you can be assured the admins of this site are satisfied that the player is playing legitimate games. 

CAJUNBOY

I have perhaps said this before but anyway:- I don't get it?? why cheat? what does a person achive? the victory is hollow, means nothing!! if you cheated does it? you did'nt win! I am not a very good player but i love chess with a passion,:-) I only play OTB, and it brings me immense pleasure when i win a game simply because I won, not a chess engine, book or a mate looking over my shoulder telling me what piece to move! i beat a player rated over 1800 recently, that moment would of meant nothing if i'd cheated, as it is that moment will stay with me for the rest of my life!:-) so my point i guess is i just dont get it!!

     lol!

    oh yeah a little P.S

       Chess.com is the best site on the web!!!

bullrock
richie_and_oprah wrote: We do not know if they are "satisfied". 

Yes we do.  Erik has stated that all cheaters will be caught.  If the account remains open, that person is not a cheater.

bullrock
CAJUNBOY wrote:

 why cheat? what does a person achive?

 One reason to cheat is to create a database of super GM moves.  Then one can study these moves as deeply as their brain will allow.

Another reason to cheat is simply because it is possible!  Bill Clinton finally answered honestly when he said the reason he did what he did was because he could.

TheGrobe
bullrock wrote:
richie_and_oprah wrote: We do not know if they are "satisfied". 

Yes we do.  Erik has stated that all cheaters will be caught.  If the account remains open, that person is not a cheater.


Surely there is some allowance for time to build a case against someone so that they can be certain that they are not closing someone's account in error.

When the evidence is strong, but not necessarily conclusive, I hope that this is exactly the approach that is taken.  Just because the account wasn't immediately closed doesn't mean that the case was.

costelus

TheGrobe and others: I am not extreme. I don't think that everybody cheats here and also I agree that, at some point, it is hard to distinguish between a game played well and a cheating case. However, for the person I was talking about, this was not the case. He was playing much better than any other player in the history of chess (OTB or correspondence before the computer era). That's why I said I have no doubt he was cheating.

I was negatively surprised when chess.com informed me that the player came out "clean". I even thought of stop playing here, I mean ... the cheating was way too obvious.

OK, here is the good news: that player is now history

http://www.chess.com/echess/profile/Chessnut23

Bye bye GM Chessnut23, good luck in the upcoming Linares tournament! Laughing

Mickey07

haha it says on his status "i will be back in a few days". Somehow i dont think so. haha

bullrock
richie_and_oprah wrote:

So, according to your "logic," every cheater has been caught

Now this is just absurd!  I'm embarrassed for you.

TheGrobe

This is certainly good news, I take a few things away from this:

  1. You were very likely correct in your analysis, as I conceded in our prior off-line discussion
  2. I does take some time to investigate and conclusively identify a cheater
  3. Reporting people you suspect -- with good reason -- does help Chess.com identify cheaters
  4. Your very public impatience in the interim has done far more harm than good
bullrock
TheGrobe wrote: Just because the account wasn't immediately closed doesn't mean that the case was.

 Exactly.  I meant if the account remains open after enough evidence is gathered then the person is not a cheater.

Heinrich_24

Guys, do you never get tired of quarreling? Smile

Heinrich_24

:-)

edwaxx

[Event "Online Chess"]
[Site "Chess.com"]
[Date "2009.03.23"]
[Round "1"]
[White "costelus"]
[Black "????"]
[Result "1-0"]
[ECO "B14"]
[WhiteElo "2016"]
[BlackElo "2106"]
[Annotator "Hiarcs Paderborn 2007 (30s)"]
[PlyCount "63"]
[EventDate "2009.??.??"]

{B14: Caro-Kann: Panov-Botvinnik Attack with 5...e6 and 5...g6} 1. e4 c5 2. c3
g6 3. d4 cxd4 4. cxd4 d5 5. exd5 Nf6 6. Nc3 Bg7 7. Bc4 Nbd7 8. Nge2 O-O 9. Bb3
Nb6 10. Nf4 {last book move} a5 11. a4 Bf5 12. O-O Rc8 13. Re1 Re8 14. Qf3 Qd6
15. h3 Qb4 16. Qd1 h5 {White has an active position} 17. Be3 (17. Re5 Qd6 18.
Nb5 $16) 17... g5 $2 (17... Nc4 18. Bxc4 Qxc4 19. Qf3 $11) 18. Nfe2 (18. Nxh5
$142 $5 Nxh5 19. Na2 $18) 18... g4 $11 {Black threatens to win material: g4xh3}
19. Ng3 Bg6 20. h4 {White has an active position} Nc4 {
Black threatens to win material: Nc4xb2} 21. Bc1 {White has an active position}
Red8 22. Bc2 Nxd5 23. Bxg6 fxg6 24. Qe2 Nxc3 (24... Rc6 25. Nxd5 Rxd5 26. b3
Qxb3 27. Qxe7 $15) 25. bxc3 Qxc3 26. Bg5 {
White threatens to win material: Bg5xe7. A beautiful square!} Qxd4 27. Qxe7 (
27. Bxe7 Re8 28. Qe6+ Kh7 $11) 27... Re8 {
Black threatens to win material: Re8xe7} (27... Rf8 $5 28. Ra2 Nb2 $17) 28.
Qxb7 Qxa1 $4 (28... Rf8 $142 {would bring relief} 29. Ra2 Nb2 $11) 29. Rxa1 $18
Bxa1 30. Ne4 Bg7 (30... g3 {desperation} 31. Bf6 Bxf6 32. Nxf6+ Kf8 33. Nh7+
Kg8 34. fxg3 Re1+ 35. Kf2 Rce8 36. Nf6+ Kf8 37. Nxe8 Rxe8 $18) 31. Bf6 Bf8 (
31... Bxf6 {what else?} 32. Nxf6+ Kf8 33. Nh7+ Kg8 $18) 32. Ng5 (32. Ng5 Re1+
33. Kh2 Bd6+ 34. g3 Rc7 35. Qa8+ Rc8 36. Qxc8+ Re8 37. Qxe8+ Bf8 38. Qe6#) (32.
Qd5+ Re6 33. Qxe6+ Kh7 34. Qf7+ Kh6 35. Bg5#) 1-0

The difference for the 17th move was .43

How did you achieve such a high match rate? Would you consider this suspect if you weren't the player in question?

jonnyjupiter

Costelus, if you really want cheaters to be caught then surely it would be best if chess.com don't reveal their methods?

If they provide you with the 'proof' you repeatedly demand then the most sophisticated cheaters will learn to bypass the system, so by getting what you want you will have helped cheaters and probably increase the number of cheaters because less of them will be caught.

This is the only thread allowed on which we can discuss cheating issues, so I'm sure most people who track the thread have a very thorough understanding of your opinion. It may be time to quieten down a little. I'd like to read a page without having to sift through repetitions of your opinions and demands.

Well done for catching chessnut. One less cheater. 15 or more pages of ranting could have been avoided if you had had patience and let the cheater-detection system do its thing.

costelus

OK johny, I agree. I hope that this reply will not upset you again.

Edwaxx: first of all the game is public, as any other game played here:

http://www.chess.com/echess/game.html?id=17364141

Secondly, what you just ran was not a multiline hand-analysis, but an automatic analysis (which does not give you the full story). 

Chess.com analysis engine gives me the following results:

innacuracies: 5 = 21.7% of moves

mistakes: 4 = 17.4% of moves

I would say I played quite bad, and in fact I think that my opponent made a mistake with 28... Qxa1. 

Oh ... and I have games with just 2 inacurracies. Some in live chess (blitz, 5+5). I can point them to you if you want to analyze them :)

bullrock
costelus wrote: Don't you think that, at some point, nobody, not even Kasparov, can demonstrate such super-humans chess-playing abilities?

Yes. If one were to play many games where he/she achieved 90% matches with a modern chess engine, then I would believe that person cheated.  My point was that person should ALWAYS be reported, but if even after being reported, the account remains open (that is, after all evidence has been gathered, it is still open), then the admins of this site must have had VERY good evidence to support the player did not cheat.

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