couple questions
1. when would this start?
2. what happens to all currently adjourned games that havent started back up yet?
Chess.com Proposal for Fixing Game Disconnects/Adjourned Games
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You guys are on the right track with this system.
The people that come to chess.com to play chess are looking for a friendly/competitive game to play. We don't want to have to worry about people hacking/cheating.
The moderators should be able to punish people that are purposefuly abusing the system (disconnecting to save rating). If someone truly gets disconnected, they would attempt to reconnect to the game and finish it. However, those people that disconnect and never go back to the game should be flagged. That way honest players would know not to accept games with people who are likely to drop on them.
Nov 11, 2008
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#44
Wow, i almost freaked when i saw that flowchart. But i read through it and it seems easy to follow and logical. So many variables, but they are important i guess.
I gotta say, the mating material variable seems like an unnecessary safety-net. It would be nice to have but i suspect there would be problems with the system identifying mating material.
Well i have just one thing great idea and all but the whole disconnector thing, I'm more of the resigning sore loser, I don't disconnect, but I've been disconnected like 8 games in a row once, that was a freaken hassle, I know some people take advantage and just turn off there internet, but come on, what out those rare occurrences that happened to me when I got disconnected 8 times in a row, i don't want to be labeled a disconnector
I agree with the solution that is proposed, with only one additional suggestion (very easy to implement, just by simple parametrization). I think we should consider two phases:
- Phase 1: Live Chess still not really stable, most of disconnects not user caused, but system related. In this case, “punishment” to users should be kept to a very bare minimum, if any at all. If we know the system is unstable, we should use caution, implement techniques to resume / adjudicate the game, but limit every “labeling decision”;
- Phase 2: Live Chess finally stable: in this phase, we can safely assume that most of the disconnects will be user related (i.e. intentionally caused by the user to avoid a loss). In this phase, we can consider and add measures intended to punish such (really bad) behaviors.
You cannot prove it, but Erik will know the status of the system and will be able to judge when the system is stable enough to *assume* that disconnects are not system caused.
On playchess.com, I never had a disconnect in two years. Here, I had two disconnects in 4 games. This is a good indicator that the Live Chess system is “not quite there yet”, with no offense meant to anyone!
Excellent proposal, although I do get quite a few disconnects through no fault of my own. Perhaps 2 minutes, rather than 90 seconds, would be better?
Much more annoying are the players who let their time expire in lost positions, you sometimes have to wait 5 minutes or more.
It's a good idea, but now the server seems like it's kicking so many more people off than it was before =(
It must be the maintenance in it.
Only contention I have is that if you are in a winning position and get bumped, the opponent can then ignore the resume option and wait 7 days to claim a win against you as you were the disconnector!
Works for me. I think maybe some more fine-tuning will be necessary, but this will be a huge improvement and is seems very well thought-out and thorough.
Nov 11, 2008
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#53
Sounds a heck of a lot better than the current system. Erik. I think you should start implementing it asap, because I am getting tired of telling people what an adjournment is every 2 minutes in the chatroom.. hehe :)
erik wrote:
after reading all of the proposals and feedback here:http://www.chess.com/forum/view/community/chesscom-needs-your-input---live-chess-games-adjourned
i propose the following:
if a player A disconnects then player B sees a popup window that says "Your opponent has disconnected and has [90] seconds to reconnect and resume this game."
after those 90 seconds, if the game is more than 4 ply (2 moves each) then the window gives you 3 options:
- claim win
- abort game (no result, nobody wins, no rating changes)
- adjourn game
you could also wait longer and your opponent can auto-resume as long as you keep that window open (until you close the session or window, in which case the game would adjourn).
if player A reconnects within 90 seconds (or beyond if you permit) then they can resume with no time penalty (time goes back to what it was before the disconnect). the game then continues as before.
if player B decides to adjourn the game, then it is held as an adjourned game for up to 7 days. if it is not finished by then, then the original disconnector (player A) loses. if both players are online then the adjourned game will show up in the SEEKS list at the top. then either player can click on RESUME. then the other player gets a popup and they have to decide - CONTINUE, or DECLINE and lose! if they disconnect before an answer, then they choose to lose (to prevent people from just disconnecting when proposed with the decision).
if BOTH players are disconnected (due to chess.com server issue, bad luck, or whatever), then the soonest player to reconnect starts the 90 second timer. then we start back over at the scenario above.
here are some additional points:
- you can only have 3 adjourned games at a time. if you get another one, you forfeit your oldest adjourned game.
- if you get more than 10% disconnects (with minimum of 5 games and defined as games where you disconnected and did not resume within 90 seconds) then you get the following penalties: you can no longer accept open seeks (except those from other "disconnectors"); when you post a seek your name is red and your seek is at the bottom of the list - everyone will know you are a "disconnector".
- adjourned games do NOT show up in the live chess game archive (to prevent cheating by studying the position).
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i like my proposal for a few reasons:
- pretty simple, yet fair
- no adjudication!
- allows for players to decide how to handle the disconnect
- punishes disconnectors
thoughts?? :)
I think that you should increase the amount of time to 150 seconds or something because sometimes it takes a while to connect.
Nov 11, 2008
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#55
Phil_from_Blayney wrote:
Only contention I have is that if you are in a winning position and get bumped, the opponent can then ignore the resume option and wait 7 days to claim a win against you as you were the disconnector!
he could claim the win anyway after 90 seconds if you don't reconnect.
Nov 11, 2008
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#56
exigentsky i understand what you are saying by giving them their due time, but i think it opens it up too much to abuse. if you are playing a 10 min game and they disconnect in the first minute, you want to have to wait 9 minutes to win?? i certainly don't. we have to think about the system in terms of abuse possibilities (which was the failure of the current system).
Nov 11, 2008
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#58
Nah, I sent him a hi-res version of the latest chart so he could actually read it without going blind. What I need to do is change the paper size to 11x14 and build the chart the RIGHT way... but not before I get some caffienne.
Nov 11, 2008
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#60
Upon resuming a game which was previously adjourned...
• Both players are online.
• Player A was the one who originally DC'd.
• But Player A opens the seek first and Player B get's a pop-up.
Since A was the one who DC'd to begin with, the pop-up should allow B to:
• continue the game or
• claim win or
• abort the game
However, if Player B gets to the seek first, then the pop-up should only allow Player A to:
• continue the game or
• resign the game (lose)
This would prevent the original disconnector from being able to claim a win by getting to the seek first. Player B would simply choose "win" or "abort" if they currently don't have time to finish that game (i.e. World History class in five minutes).
Does that make sense? I hope so. Might be a bit more programming, though since you would have 2 different message routines and would also have to keep track of who originally DC'd.
Here ya go. Sorry about the small text, but I had to shrink it to fit here.
This gets us up to the point of saving the adjourned game. A different diagram
would be needed for the "continuing adjourned game" logic.