Draw by timeout vs insufficient material?

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Avatar of play4fun64

If there's increment like 5/5, and both or one won't agree to draw, when will game stop? The position as below.

Avatar of 7zx

Probably after 50 moves

Avatar of tygxc

@124

That is why you should play with increment.
With increment you can draw by the 50-moves rule.
Without increment the one with more time / who can move faster wins by time-out.

Avatar of jetoba
Scorpion2_0 wrote:

hello i have a doubt my opponent ran out of time but he had a queen and 4 pawns and it was showing “timeout vs insufficient material.”

Things like that can happen in G/3 with no increment. In the game I found from your archive it was a Queen and two pawns for your opponent versus your sole king.

https://www.chess.com/game/live/101557334223?username=scorpion2_0

Avatar of PartofShiv
jetoba wrote:
Scorpion2_0 wrote:

hello i have a doubt my opponent ran out of time but he had a queen and 4 pawns and it was showing “timeout vs insufficient material.”

Things like that can happen in G/3 with no increment. In the game I found from your archive it was a Queen and two pawns for your opponent versus your sole king.

https://www.chess.com/game/live/101557334223?username=scorpion2_0

I had time increament. My opponent had enough material to checkmate but still when his game time was over, it was still a draw by insufficient material.

Here is my game - https://www.chess.com/game/live/101573483141

Avatar of tygxc

@128

His game time was over, but you had no series of legal moves to checkmate him, so you got a draw instead of a win.

Avatar of jetoba
Shiv-angi wrote:
jetoba wrote:
Scorpion2_0 wrote:

hello i have a doubt my opponent ran out of time but he had a queen and 4 pawns and it was showing “timeout vs insufficient material.”

Things like that can happen in G/3 with no increment. In the game I found from your archive it was a Queen and two pawns for your opponent versus your sole king.

https://www.chess.com/game/live/101557334223?username=scorpion2_0

I had time increament. My opponent had enough material to checkmate but still when his game time was over, it was still a draw by insufficient material.

Here is my game - https://www.chess.com/game/live/101573483141

I'm not sure why it simply said draw but your opponent was at zero seconds and it really was “timeout vs insufficient material.”

Avatar of PartofShiv
tygxc wrote:

@128

His game time was over, but you had no series of legal moves to checkmate him, so you got a draw instead of a win.

I got it. Thankyou.

Avatar of MaxJayWang

According to Chess.com, you still have to act fast as a lone king a king and two knights. As two knights and a king can't force a mate against a lone king, it is still possible. So if your opponent only has a king and two knights and you run out of time, you actually lose rather than draw.

Avatar of tygxc

@128
This is a forced checkmate, a win per FIDE, or per USCF,
but on chess.com black can get away with a draw by letting his clock run out of time:

Avatar of EndgameEnthusiast2357

An even simpler and more realistic example:

If white in a time scramble pushes the a pawn and falls into that mating net, he can deliberately flag and get a draw. And this isn't some obscure tablebase win or unrealistic grotesque study, just a simple mate in 7 found in beginner Endgame books.

Avatar of Martin_Stahl
tygxc wrote:

@128
This is a forced checkmate, a win per FIDE, or per USCF,
but on chess.com black can get away with a draw by letting his clock run out of time:

Not true anymore. It's a win for white here:

https://support.chess.com/en/articles/8557986-my-opponent-ran-out-of-time-why-was-it-a-draw

King + two knights exception

Although a king and two knights is considered insufficient mating material for other situations, a timeout against these pieces does not lead to a draw. If your opponent only has a king and two knights, and you run out of time, you will get the loss, not the draw. This is due to a king and two knights being technically possible to checkmate an opponent, even though the mate can't be forced, it is still possible.

Avatar of Mreatha

I just got it and I didn't even know this type of draw existed

Avatar of tygxc

@131

Good that they now corrected that. That still leaves other cases.

This is a forced checkmate, a win per FIDE, or per USCF,
but on chess.com black can get away with a draw by letting his clock run out of time:

Avatar of EndgameEnthusiast2357

That is fascinating, and this position is supposedly a mate in almost 30:

Forgot the exact move order, but it's basically shuffling the king until the black pawns arrive and then moving the knight around. I wonder just how drawn out and complex you can make that single knight Endgame, how pawns can you add and double and make it still a really long forced win?

Avatar of EndgameEnthusiast2357

Ah I understand it now and Stockfish surprisingly does to, it's a mate in 16:

h6 instead of h5 reduces it by 5 moves because of this:

It ends up being blacks move here and white doesn't have to do as much maneuvering. Now imagine having the skill to see that forced mate, and black just deliberately flags in a forced mate position and getting a draw!

Avatar of rlscientist

so like when you run out of time, it's like you can't move anymore. so if you don't have mating material, you can't checkmate your opponent even if they run out of time and can't make any moves

Avatar of EndgameEnthusiast2357
rlscientist wrote:

so like when you run out of time, it's like you can't move anymore. so if you don't have mating material, you can't checkmate your opponent even if they run out of time and can't make any moves

Yes, but the thing is this site only considers the pieces you have if your opponent runs out of time, and the result of that piece against a lone king, even if your opponent still has other pieces where that single knight or bishop could mate a boxed in king. So on this site, if your opponent only has a king and knight, you automatically get a draw if you flag, even if smothered mate is inevitable for example.

Avatar of yuvi1024

I had a winning position.. 2 passed pawns, a rook and king. My opponent was down to only King. Both of us had around 20min left on clock but the other person didn't make a move for 5min in an attempt that I ma resign getting frustrated. I didn't resign but went on to scroll IG. After like 15min I saw draw by timeout vs insufficient material and there the last move played on the board was by me. So I'm guessing he must have ran out of time but then why is it a draw when I had the Winning position!?!?!?

Avatar of Lagomorph
yuvi1024 wrote:

I had a winning position.. 2 passed pawns, a rook and king. My opponent was down to only King. Both of us had around 20min left on clock but the other person didn't make a move for 5min in an attempt that I ma resign getting frustrated. I didn't resign but went on to scroll IG. After like 15min I saw draw by timeout vs insufficient material and there the last move played on the board was by me. So I'm guessing he must have ran out of time but then why is it a draw when I had the Winning position!?!?!?

Bizarre !

I can only imagine that while you were browsing IG, the server thought you had disconnected (abandoned). The result would then be a draw.

Note that you both have time on the clock when the game declared a draw.