I must be getting (too) old: sandbagging, really?!!

Hi all,

Just wanted to give you a heads-up on IMHO strange events on here... But, (yes I do know  it's all been said before ... etc) allow me to share my personal observation.

okay, what's the issue. Primarily my ego :-) Secondly, my scientific analytic mind.

Rating as a derivative of opponents playing strength. 

My story: I try to work my way upwards from 1700 > 1800 (hopefully one day even higher) . After a period of playing reasonably on par with opponents of this strength (almost nailing a nm :-) , but still lost in time trouble due to blunder) 

I suddenly face opponents - systematically - who really crush me... not only in this rating range, but hundreds of rating points lower!!! They seem to find tactics really on the spot, pinning indirectly, taking away crucial spots for my pieces instantly (also under time pressure) and when I'm well up, throw attacking combi's out of their selves like they are born chess champs... again and again.. also mostly finishing under time trouble just ahead of me and have my scalp :-) Sure,  I blunder too much (don't we all), but it's not just that. They really just outplay me, most definitely concerning the time they use up to find those moves to do so. And no, I can't keep up.

Sure, all business as usual one might say. But, if they are consistently this good, their rating should reflect that too. not in the 1300-1400 leagues, come on. Normally players just know some opening stuff, basic tactic, etc. As certain GM's say: ?? check these players out pls, those moves are not of e normal human eye....

To sum this up: I don't accuse anybody of unfair play. To me it's frustrating to play opponents who seem to play like bots... Still it's my own choice of keep playing (and try to beat them!!, which I really, really !!! try)

The net result of the above is a very large drop in rating... even mid 1300 !!! And this morning, well , I got a system message that I was not allowed to enter a tournament because of sandbagging... really?

Sigh, what a man got to do to keep his motivation up here? I hope to get out of the pool of these players and face more humans :-) (no offence intended to the bots)

As ever, high regards,

ThktwiceAgain

oh, yes, just for the curious people of you all: on ' the other sites' (Lichess/chess24) my Blitz rating is indeed 2000; longer time controls even higher (peeking 2250); also I teach chess to kids, who play - at least in The Netherlands - on the same strength (official!!) as  my opponents on here; who I just can't seem to beat.... So no, I'm certainly NOT new to chess and know my stuff.

If you find those kinds of player makes sure report them support team will take action on them and your rating will be refunded 

https://support.chess.com/article/209-how-do-i-report-someone

you know whats the worst?

Being accused of sandbagging when you are actually not sandbagging at all..

You are like; that's all i have *cries*

If you feel someone is cheating, report them. There is that stuff online, but it is generally a minority of people, at least in my experience. They catch them, perhaps not all, but many are caught, and you are bound to get some rating back, if someone has used the engine against you.

I see that you play a lot of games (1 500 in a month and a half). You might just get tired and start losing rating where you wouldn't normally. Along with it, you lose a lot by timeout (40% of your games), many of those games you are better at the time of a loss, so it is not like you just get outplayed by someone's perfect play. Perhaps you should take some breaks between 2 series of games, or take a little break from playing (say 1, 2 days).

I know it is not the same, but I lose a lot of rating in puzzles when I force myself to solve more than I should. I have an ok session and then I mess up 5+ in a row and get frustrated. They call this a tilt, so it is best to take a break before it happens.

Lichess rating is generally higher, but if you are 2 000 blitz there, then you should be around 1 700 or so here, certainly not 1 300, that is too great of a difference.

Oh and as for sandbagging, I would appeal and explain the situation.

this is heartbreaking i hope you feel better

not a surprise if chess.com likes to underestimate and overestimate someone's strength. winning with a high accuracy many times means cheating, losing many times and titling a lot means sandbagging...so typical of this site...

Rating is based on your player pool, but even that changes. 

I suspect, but I don't have the data, that there is a skill spike when the scholastic players are out in both America and India.  (So, mainly in the afternoon, respectively).  So, I think there is a ratings deflation for afternoon players, and a ratings inflation for people who don't play during those times.  I also think there is a ratings inflation for people who play live chess but don't play tournaments and a deflation for those people who play only tournaments and not much live.

I think with all that rating variance, it is more likely misrated players are tanking your ratings, or even worse, you may not have ever been a 1700 in the first place, you just happened to play in a pool of inflated players which inflated your own rating. 

Thank you all for your kind replies.

I decided to inform the support team at chess.com on this matter. 

I will let you know their response, as this could well be happening to anyone of us.

High regards,

I don't see anything abnormal in your games. Both sides made a lot of mistakes in most games which is normal for your rating. In my experience people in tournaments tend to play above their rating and I see you lost a bunch of arena games. Maybe that can explain it partially.

So, why the sandbagging flag from the system then?

You seem to be on a massive tilt, losing 300+ points is impressive. But I do agree that blitz ratings in the mid thousands seem to be deflating. 1500 blitz players are simply better than 1750 rapid (10 0) players.

My understanding is that the programs look at your recent rating history. If two weeks ago you were 1700, and today you tried to enter an <1600 tourney, I'd expect them to reject you. This is to protect the integrity of the tournament.

If you're not allowed to enter a tourney based on rating, why not enter an Arena or Swiss, which has no rating ceiling?

If your rating continues to hang at the 13xx level, the server will eventually allow you to play in <1500 tourneys. Hopefully, that won't be necessary.

It's a pattern I have noticed too. I don't worry about it but then, I don't play tournaments online, so I've not had any messages from a website saying I can't participate because they believe I'm sandbagging.

Op is right, something is definately going on, I am in two daily tournaments and the low ranked players seem to be extremely difficult to beat. I am but a lowly 1300+ and I play badly at times, but there has definately been a big change in the last few weeks.

Nothing is going on, tournaments have always had people who play better than their rating suggests in my experience. Playing tournaments is bad for your rating.

Ive also noticed someengine players

Usually when I lose, I don't blame the opponent but me. It is a nice attitude. Just because you cannot keep up with their play it doesn't mean that they are cheating, just that they are playing better than you.

It's also good to look at how many blunders you made if you lose.